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Psychology, Spirituality link?
- RevElev
- Topic Author
14 years 10 months ago #74127
by RevElev
Psychology, Spirituality link? was created by RevElev
I'd like to start by saying I am NOT looking for advice about my situation. But it highlights a question I've been considering for about a week. My situation:
I'm pre-stream entry and noticing the vast amount of tension and anxiety that I carry with me. Some of it seems to be based on an adolescent trauma, I've dealt with it with several professional therapists/counselors and it isn't a large issue in my life anymore. But, as I become aware of more subtle layers of mind(maybe) it seems to be becoming a more central issue.
My question is this: Does a psychological issue of this type hinder spiritual progress? Can a spiritual practice deal with this sort of thing or are they two different beasts? I realize that significant psych. issues aren't helped by this type of practice but how about less significant ones? Does dealing with this tension/anxiety via meditation help the pysch issue?
Any thoughts are appreciated. And I'm willing to answer any questions to clarify my babling.
I'm pre-stream entry and noticing the vast amount of tension and anxiety that I carry with me. Some of it seems to be based on an adolescent trauma, I've dealt with it with several professional therapists/counselors and it isn't a large issue in my life anymore. But, as I become aware of more subtle layers of mind(maybe) it seems to be becoming a more central issue.
My question is this: Does a psychological issue of this type hinder spiritual progress? Can a spiritual practice deal with this sort of thing or are they two different beasts? I realize that significant psych. issues aren't helped by this type of practice but how about less significant ones? Does dealing with this tension/anxiety via meditation help the pysch issue?
Any thoughts are appreciated. And I'm willing to answer any questions to clarify my babling.
- kennethfolk
- Topic Author
14 years 10 months ago #74128
by kennethfolk
Replied by kennethfolk on topic RE: Psychology, Spirituality link?
There certainly is a link between psychology and the kind of developmental spirituality that we do here. In both cases, we are exposing parts of the mind/body process that were previously operating in the dark. This theme of bringing light to darkness is central to both spirituality and psychology. And because the body is one of the ways we experience the world, body-centered practices rule the roost in both endeavors. In other words, just thinking about it doesn't help much with either getting enlightened or dealing with trauma, whether major or minor. But once you become aware of how the body operates in each moment, things get clearer. Thoughts are just thoughts and body is just body. So any practice that gets you into your body is going to help with both spirituality and psychology. Which is why people who are practicing vipassana, for example, with no explicit interest in psychological development can often find themselves becoming emotional grownups in the process. But it is not a one to one correspondence. It is good to recognize both lines of development as distinct although interrelated. Some psychological issues are best targeted directly using psychological methods. And as we well know, spiritual development is much more than just an offshoot of psychology and is most efficiently addressed through specific modalities that aim directly at enlightenment. In other words, there are millions of people walking around who have worked on their psychology for years but are not yet awake. Conversely there are lots of experienced yogis and mystics who could use some serious help in the emotional maturity department and/or have not yet effectively dealt with their trauma.
- RevElev
- Topic Author
14 years 10 months ago #74129
by RevElev
Replied by RevElev on topic RE: Psychology, Spirituality link?
Kenneth,
Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. I think this will become more clear to me as I progress on this path.
Thanks for the explanation, makes sense. I think this will become more clear to me as I progress on this path.
- sventhepsychonaut
- Topic Author
14 years 8 months ago #74130
by sventhepsychonaut
Replied by sventhepsychonaut on topic RE: Psychology, Spirituality link?
RevElev,
I completely agree with Kenneth.
Some aspects of life deserve a different treatment than through spiritual practices.
Knowing one´s true nature is first of all just that, in my humble opinion. Doesn´t mean you can run faster or you´re better in school.
Spiritual training is more about the structure of the mind, not it´s content (=psychology).
I feel that adressing my issues through psychology helped me a lot and I have the feeling that this allows me make better spiritual progress. A human being is multi-facetted, different aspects deserve different approaches.
There´s a pretty cool guest writing here:
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/body...%2C+energy+blockages
You may also want to read the comments concerning this, especially where "somatic experiencing" is mentioned.
It seems to be an interesting approach to heal trauma by addressing bio-energy through body scanning techniques.
Cheers
Sven
I completely agree with Kenneth.
Some aspects of life deserve a different treatment than through spiritual practices.
Knowing one´s true nature is first of all just that, in my humble opinion. Doesn´t mean you can run faster or you´re better in school.
Spiritual training is more about the structure of the mind, not it´s content (=psychology).
I feel that adressing my issues through psychology helped me a lot and I have the feeling that this allows me make better spiritual progress. A human being is multi-facetted, different aspects deserve different approaches.
There´s a pretty cool guest writing here:
kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/body...%2C+energy+blockages
You may also want to read the comments concerning this, especially where "somatic experiencing" is mentioned.
It seems to be an interesting approach to heal trauma by addressing bio-energy through body scanning techniques.
Cheers
Sven
- jgroove
- Topic Author
14 years 8 months ago #74131
by jgroove
Replied by jgroove on topic RE: Psychology, Spirituality link?
As Wilber puts it, a lot of us go around like "brains on a stick" and are way out of touch with the body. I started feeling fat, slow and physically inadequate by the time I was in early elementary school. Little wonder my primary focus quickly became abstractions/distractions like comic books, fantasy games, TV. I can't remember whether it was you, Rev, who had recommended Reggie Ray's "Touching Enlightenment," but if you haven't checked it out, it might be worth a read. I've been going through it lately. Also, Leigh Brasington does an excellent guided sweeping session in one of his talks at Audio Dharma. I think it's part of his Four Foundations series. Wish I had the direct link. Could be helpful?
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
14 years 8 months ago #74132
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Psychology, Spirituality link?
"And then, like many who find themselves in just the place I was, I made a surprising discovery. Somewhere in the timeless terrain of a meditation intensive'”I had a particularly rough day. My whole body was a mass of pain'”my ankles were stiff and crampy, my knees were sore, my legs ached, and I had separate and distinct complaints of pain in my lower, middle and upper back. We were in the middle of a long stretch of sitting, and my mind struggled mightily against the prospect of being trapped in this pain for an indeterminate amount of time. My mental state became more and more sore and inflamed and gradually I arrived at a point when I felt that I really could not stand the pain of both my mind and my body another second. If I have had an experience of hell in this life, that moment of totally claustrophobic pain was it.
And then something abruptly shifted. All of a sudden I was utterly free of physical discomfort. I had not dissociated'”in fact I was much more fully in my body than before'”but somehow I let go of my resistance and struggle. I surrendered to the pain rather than continued to fight against it. My body responded by relaxing. I sat in utter peace, feeling the contentment of having a physical body'”enjoying my breathing, feeling the pleasure of my heart beating and blood coursing through my veins, feeling the rich, complex, abundant life of energy going on within, fully present to the other meditators in the room and to the falling night outside.
That moment helped me to understand that the pain in my body was not an independent phenomenon, but was somehow tied up with my mind. When my mind changed, so did the feeling in my body. In fact, it seemed clear that my physical pain was a reflection of my mental state'” a mental state characterized by ambition and aggression toward my body."
www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=co...iew&id=2230&Itemid=0
And then something abruptly shifted. All of a sudden I was utterly free of physical discomfort. I had not dissociated'”in fact I was much more fully in my body than before'”but somehow I let go of my resistance and struggle. I surrendered to the pain rather than continued to fight against it. My body responded by relaxing. I sat in utter peace, feeling the contentment of having a physical body'”enjoying my breathing, feeling the pleasure of my heart beating and blood coursing through my veins, feeling the rich, complex, abundant life of energy going on within, fully present to the other meditators in the room and to the falling night outside.
That moment helped me to understand that the pain in my body was not an independent phenomenon, but was somehow tied up with my mind. When my mind changed, so did the feeling in my body. In fact, it seemed clear that my physical pain was a reflection of my mental state'” a mental state characterized by ambition and aggression toward my body."
www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=co...iew&id=2230&Itemid=0
- RonCrouch
- Topic Author
14 years 8 months ago #74133
by RonCrouch
Replied by RonCrouch on topic RE: Psychology, Spirituality link?
This is an issue that hits close to home for me. I'm a psychologist and I often think about this stuff.
I have to say that I think that it all depends on severity of suffering here. There is no doubt that doing insight practice will bring up painful psychological issues, especially trauma. But is insight practice the right "treatment" for it. My opinion right now is that it depends on how disabling the suffering is to you.
If you dredge up a trauma that his emotionally painful, but you can still go to work, take care of your kids and focus on the things in life that make you happy when you want to, I'd say you are probably resilient enough to cope with it and make it through the process. But if you can't get through your life then I'd say seek therapy ASAP.
The truth is that even once we see through the fiction of self, that doesn't keep the pain associated with the self from popping up, and getting help with that is one of the most compassionate things you can do for yourself (and everyone who lives with you).
I have to say that I think that it all depends on severity of suffering here. There is no doubt that doing insight practice will bring up painful psychological issues, especially trauma. But is insight practice the right "treatment" for it. My opinion right now is that it depends on how disabling the suffering is to you.
If you dredge up a trauma that his emotionally painful, but you can still go to work, take care of your kids and focus on the things in life that make you happy when you want to, I'd say you are probably resilient enough to cope with it and make it through the process. But if you can't get through your life then I'd say seek therapy ASAP.
The truth is that even once we see through the fiction of self, that doesn't keep the pain associated with the self from popping up, and getting help with that is one of the most compassionate things you can do for yourself (and everyone who lives with you).
