A question On Samatha Jhana's

"Well, I've been working with Kenneth lately, and started out with the samatha jhanas, and as it turns out, I've traversed some of the territory before and can hit all 12," Haquan from Impermanence, 'No-self and Suffering' a link from the controversy thread

Please what do you meant by 12 samatha Jhanas? I've only heard of the 4 rupa and 4 arupa Jhana's or the insight Jhanas?

We talk about 5 additional jhanas which are available after third path. We refer to them as pureland jhanas or pure abodes. This makes for 13 jhanas in total.

Hi neemnyima,
There is a good deal of mental territory between the 8th jhana and NS. Historically, I think it just kinda got disregarded but when you look at the pretty discreet demarcations as you exit the 8th jhana and proceed into NS, it makes sense to classify them as their own jhanas. That being said, there is a noticeable difference in "feel" between the PL jhanas and the classical ones, so I can understand why they have not been canonically mapped that way.
In terms of practice, they are a good technical diagnostic criteria for third path. I'd be curious to know if anybody were able to access NS without an experience of the PL territory.

what is NS?also thanks for your reply'svery helpful knowing i can't experience them until third path.
I've only ever got 7th and that hasn't happened in ages, and my practice now does really push the jhana's wont try for the arupa's until after stream, which i still haven't got.

NS is shorthand for nirodha samapatti. It's a type of cessation characterized by the fairly long entry into it and the rather powerful bliss wave when coming out. NS is a full shutdown into non-experience and a reboot of the system. Not recommended while pregnant, nursing, or operating heavy machinery.

"NS is shorthand for nirodha samapatti. It's a type of cessation characterized by the fairly long entry into it and the rather powerful bliss wave when coming out. NS is a full shutdown into non-experience and a reboot of the system. Not recommended while pregnant, nursing, or operating heavy machinery. "

Ah u mean 8th Jhana or Arupa Jhana. Thank you good to know what something is, and where it fits.

Nope, NS is not 8th jhana. It's located in the territory after 8th jhana and is a complete and total shutdown and reboot of the entire mindbody system.

Be careful with your terminology here, the arupa jhanas are jhanas 5-8 and not 8th by itself.

Some people refer to NS as 9th Jhana...

"Some people refer to NS as 9th Jhana..."

Yeah, and it's not correct. NS is _not_ a jhana. It's a type of cessation. It's just a touch unusual given that you "see" it coming once you advert to it. It has a very characteristic entrance as perception somewhat methodically shuts down.

I was just going to say the same thing, Owen! The shutdown is a beautiful thing, and the afterglow is just exceptional.

"I was just going to say the same thing, Owen! The shutdown is a beautiful thing, and the afterglow is just exceptional."

I find myself *drool*ing over your description like you were describing some amazing dish.

"Yeah, and it's not correct. NS is _not_ a jhana. It's a type of cessation. It's just a touch unusual given that you "see" it coming once you advert to it. It has a very characteristic entrance as perception somewhat methodically shuts down."

Agreed. It isn't correct, however Leigh Brasington and other people outside of KFD do refer to it as that for some reason.

E.g. Wikipedia - "The Buddha himself discovered an attainment beyond the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception, the "cessation of feelings and perceptions." This is sometimes called the "ninth jhāna" in commentarial and scholarly literature.[12][15]"

Aye, I remember reading that. Seems kinda strange to refer to something which is quite clearly a non-experience as a jhana though, although I suppose the journey towards it and the fact that, one way or another, you'll enter jhana before it happens due to the concentration involved. Terminology is a pain in the arse.....lol

Thanks for the info will correlate all that info and get it downloaded

yep Tommy, I meant 8th Jhana from the arupa jhana section of jhana's. So if NS, is not in the arupa Jhana's(though traditionally called 9th jhana), is it counted among the 5 pureland Jhana's mentioned above, even though its not a jhana and something beyond or past the pure land jhana's .

No, it isn't a pureland jhana. NS is a cessation of experience, while the 5 pureland jhanas are clear experiences.