You don't have to stop doing (whatever it is)

I thought I'd share this exchange from Jack's thread, just in case there were some of us who hadn't seen it. Jack was in a terrible bike accident. Laurel was explaining her difficulty with trying to be mindful of pain without having an underlying agenda to get rid of it:

"The problem is--and I'm sure you can relate--you can tell yourself you're just noting, but underneath it all you're hoping the pain will go away if you just relax and note it well," Laurel wrote. "I haven't yet discovered the secret to working with pain without that agenda."

In response, Kenneth wrote:
"The key to this is to take another step back. You don't have to drop your agenda; you just have to notice that you have an agenda. This is such a huge issue for beginning and intermediate yogis that we should probably devote entire books and websites to it. There is this natural inclination to think 'if only I could stop doing (whatever it is), I could meditate better.' But it isn't true! You don't have to stop doing (whatever it is). You just have to notice that you are doing it. As soon as the fact that you are doing (whatever it is) becomes the new object for investigation, you are doing vipassana in the most efficient way possible."

Wow. I do think this is worth further discussion. It is so common in the mainstream dharma world for people to be urged to drop their agendas. They are told point blank that no progress is possible until they stop wanting progress. Over time, progress itself becomes synonymous with having the ability to drop the agenda. Trouble is, an honest person, seeing that the agenda is still there, feels stymied.

"They say that for me to attain jhana, I have to not want it. Truthfully, I still want it. Therefore it is hopeless for me." Ditto for SE or other attainments. [cont.]

[cont. from above]

Frequently, the inability to drop an agenda, combined with the desire for progress, is described as the worst form of abject suffering--something to be avoided at all costs.

"I struggled for years to get it back. If only I had realized how much suffering was involved in that."

In comparison, Kenneth's point is so much more honest and straightforward: Instead of trying to drop your agenda or worrying about whether you have one or don't, just look in an unflinching way at whatever is there. Yes!

I think In this case one needs to spend more time noting mindstates/thoughts and develop a proficiency with that. There are 4 foundations of mindfulness. If we are getting lost in thought, then we'll need to really make sure we are looking at all of the foundations and aren't, for example, trying to analyze the body to the exclusion of thinking (with thinking continuously distracting you from the task of noting the body). It's perfectly legitimate to note only thoughts for an entire sit if you think that's where some work is required. The same goes for mindstates such as wanting, aversion, confusion, worry, anticipation, dullness, craving, etc.

Right. When I think about this process of dealing with agendas, it starts with the body/energetic phenomena, and spins into a war of opposed thoughts and mind states.
So, the energetic phenomenon arises and is accompanied by a sense of promise--you can tell this is something that could expand or develop in a more interesting way.
I'll note the phenomenon and then "excitement, wanting," but this will be followed by "concern, not wanting the wanting" (because, per the agenda, there actually is wanting, but the belief is that it can't be there if the phenomenon is to play out properly). This quickly does become a confusing and non-specific situation. I've started trying to short-circuit this whole process by noting it as "gamesmanship," but I'm not sure that is precise enough.

It might be helpful to use a multiple-note technique moment to moment

pressure-negative-aversion-practice thought
burning-negative-worry-agenda thought
tension-negative-uncertainty-practice thought

etc.

Just continue to break it down into it's components and continue to practice at a constant pace for however long you've decided to sit. Remember none of it is you, it is all phenomenon to be noted/disembeded from/deconstructed.

"It might be helpful to use a multiple-note technique moment to moment

pressure-negative-aversion-practice thought
burning-negative-worry-agenda thought
tension-negative-uncertainty-practice thought

etc.

Just continue to break it down into it's components and continue to practice at a constant pace for however long you've decided to sit. Remember none of it is you, it is all phenomenon to be noted/disembeded from/deconstructed. "

That is helpful. I feel like I've already been disembedding from some of the agenda stuff a bit just by recognizing and labeling parts of it, but lumping it all together as "gamesmanship" is going in the opposite direction. I'll probably drop that. Thanks!