Has anyone else done this?

"Internal duplication" is a cognitive process in which sensory experiences get "copied" and are re-experienced as a lo-fi duplicate of the original. The easiest example is listening to a musical note (where the actual sensory experience of the note occurs, AND the mind generates another note...as if it's trying to sing along.)

Owen says this ended for him when he got 4th path.

If I recall, Daniel (in MCTB) writes about it in such a way that it seems he doesn't think this goes away in the normal course of vipassana.

Anyone else get rid of this cognitive process permanently, and if so, when / how? (Edit: has anyone gotten 4th path and NOT gotten rid of this process?)

I have it, and I think I'd be better off without it.

""Internal duplication" is a cognitive process in which sensory experiences get "copied" and are re-experienced as a lo-fi duplicate of the original. The easiest example is listening to a musical note (where the actual sensory experience of the note occurs, AND the mind generates another note...as if it's trying to sing along.)

Owen says this ended for him when he got 4th path.

If I recall, Daniel (in MCTB) writes about it in such a way that it seems he doesn't think this goes away in the normal course of vipassana.

Anyone else get rid of this cognitive process permanently, and if so, when / how?

I have it, and I think I'd be better off without it."

It might be helpful to investigate the underlying aversion to the duplication. As long as you are noting what's really happening for you in THIS moment, things have a way of working themselves out automatically.

I can't find any aversion to it, gross or subtle, in my experience. Actually, up until very recently, I thought it was pretty cool. Why not sing along with music? It's only recently, with the comparison of direct mode / having EEs that it seems coarse and as if it gets in the way of deeper DM experiences, which is why I say I think I'd be better off without it.

If I have aversion to anything, it's aversion to not being in DM.

"I can't find any aversion to it, gross or subtle, in my experience. Actually, up until very recently, I thought it was pretty cool. Why not sing along with music? It's only recently, with the comparison of direct mode / having EEs that it seems coarse and as if it gets in the way of deeper DM experiences, which is why I say I think I'd be better off without it.

If I have aversion to anything, it's aversion to not being in DM."

Then note that. Anything else is extra.

Aversion to not being in DM comes and goes (typically there's more right after falling out of DM). Right now I can't find any. Can you suggest some other mind object to note that you think is related to the internal duplication process?

I assume that if there's any object related to it, it would be there in every case that the duplication was there, which means right now, regardless of how I feel. I'm looking at my experience right now and finding absolutely nothing that matches that description, apart from the processes that support this mode of experience and are suppressed in DM (i.e. the attention wave). Noting that right now just gets me lots of review cessations. Focusing on that right now without noting pushes me towards DM in a way that is less efficient than the other methods I use.

Suggestions?

"Suggestions?"

Sure. Note what happens in your experience now and let go of the result. If you can't let go of the result, note that also.

Did walking meditation for ~25 minutes, noting whatever happens without trying or expending effort or caring about the process or about what I was noting. Without effort, I note 4-6 times per second. Started off with a bunch of cessations, then went to what I call state 6 ("internal space" / emotions / vibrations / internal duplication / perception of time-as-moments all lessened; a mild / moderate EE I suppose) for about 10 minutes, then it ended, a few more cessations, then entered some intermediate space between regular consciousness and DM. Nothing occurs to me so far other than more DM --> less internal duplicating.

I dunno. Has this technique proven to be helpful for other people in eliminating internal duplicating, or are you just extrapolating from having done it yourself, having attained 4th path through it, and having gotten rid of internal duplicating as an effect of that?

(This leads back to the question of whether anyone else has gotten rid of it, especially by having attained 4th path.)

I should also expand the question to include: has anyone gotten 4th path and NOT gotten rid of internal duplication?

The problem is that there is no solution because there is no problem. LOL sorry, I know exactly how you feel and I can't help you.

Could you expand more on the experience of cessations? I can't find anything like that in my experience other than perhaps the abrupt transition between noticing I am lost and waking up again.

Hey Orasis,

I don't have much to say about cessations other than the standard stuff. Review cessations have some typical stuff happen on the way in and on the way out, and often cause the belief that there was a point during which no experience occurred. Pathlike cessations have a couple of extra strange moments tacked onto the beginning, which I've never been able to get much clarity about, probably because they're not repeatable.

Are you pre- or post-path? If you haven't had a cessation yet, just getting path may clear up your questions about what sounds like a mysterious subject, but isn't actually all that interesting.