Noting vs Direct Mode

Hi,

At the beggining of this month I felt like I was really on my way with my practice. I started to feel really grounded in the present and started to experince some real bliss in my sitting. Since that point, it feels like it has dried up. My noting feels solid, yet the analyisis of the moment keeps my mind mildly agitated.

I have been retracing my steps and trying to work out what might have changed. I think it might be that I had been using more of a direct mode to tune into the present 'how does that feel in the body..etc.etc' I had listened to Kenneths talk Spiritual Materialsm and this is described really well at the end. Since that point though I just dropped that in favour of noting practice as it seems to be the technique of choice. I subsequently listened to the power of potty training, which might have led to this switch. (im easliy swayed!)

Can anyone give me advice about how to skillfuly make use of these two techniques. I am by nature very analytical and in my thoughts. I think the direct mode was starting to ground me and thats why I expreinced some progress.

Is it a case of either/or?..........Do they compliment each other or is it better to focus on one? Should the noting be regarded simply as support to noticing or is that underplaying its value.

Any advice, would be great!

"Can anyone give me advice about how to skillfuly make use of these two techniques. I am by nature very analytical and in my thoughts. I think the direct mode was starting to ground me and thats why I expreinced some progress.

Is it a case of either/or?..........Do they compliment each other or is it better to focus on one? Should the noting be regarded simply as support to noticing or is that underplaying its value.

Any advice, would be great!"

Are you noting analytical thoughts as the 4th foundation of mindfulness when they arise? Are you noting craving for bliss? It doesn't really matter what comes up during practice, it only matters that you can be clearly aware of it. It's been my experience that until the mind is rendered transparent via the vipassana technique, sustaining direct mode practice is mostly impossible.

Owen, as a slightly different perspective on early directmode practice, the instructions, as I understood them from Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche is simply to recognize awareness as many times throughout the day as possible and not to worry at all with sustaining it. This way, you just get these little dopamine hits of "ohhh! Awareness!!!", then you might pay attention for 10 seconds before getting lost again. Then later on you recognize it again and get the little hit again. This has been my primary practice for the last year and with only a handful of formal sitting sessions my awakeness continues to get stronger and reveal more of it's aspects to me.

Thanks Owen,
I have been noting sensation/vedena then the resulting aversion, interest, anticipating and desire I have also started to note the subsequent analysis,evaluation, and planning thoughts that arise.

I think that my problem is that I cant shake my conceptual idea that progress stems from a quietening of the activity of the mind. A bit like a slowing of brainwaves or an altered state. When I note, it feels like im using my everyday mind and the analytical aspect of evaluating, recognising and noting my expreince is keeping me at this level. So I cant really undersatnd how the process will transform my awareness.

However im anticipating that the advice is just to keep noticing and noting.

BTW - Started listening to the podcasts on THP..great stuff really useful!

Hi Ed76,

I agree with Owen. Progression through the paths makes the mind incredibly flexible in a way that it doesn't seem to naturally be for most people. Going for stream entry is a big step on the way to having more consistent direct mode experiences (and on the way to other good things as well).

You seem to recognize consciously that progress does NOT stem from achieving an altered state of consciousness, which is why you bring it up. So can you accept as a matter of faith, or a working assumption, that progress towards paths depends solely on insight (even if you can't yet see from where you're standing why that is)?

Hi EndInSight,

Cheers, yes I can take it as a working assumption. It goes very much against my conditioning, however I think it will be useful if I can let go of this idea. I think it has really been hampering my efforts.

Insight, as discussed on this site sometimes sounds like an altered state. I can also see though, that the stages are more likely to arise from the process as opposed to direct manipulation of my experience.

Ill keep going with the noting, cheers for the advice.

"It goes very much against my conditioning, however I think it will be useful if I can let go of this idea. I think it has really been hampering my efforts.
-Ed"

Very useful indeed! Trust me, after letting go of the steering wheel, you don't want to take it again.

Ed76, you're right that lots of altered states can come up during noting (or other vipassana practices), but those are side effects of attaining (or having previously attained) insight, not causes. Or they're just incidental experiences from generating a lot of concentration.

Edit: One thing that seems extremely important to me is thinking that the goal is "getting insight," not "getting through the stages of insight." The former causes the latter. Go for the root!

Good luck!

Also, see how wanting to be present or to have a particular state of mind is putting you at odds with the present moment. By desiring to be at peace and working toward that you are creating tension with what already is. It's subtle but something quite helpful to ponder. Are you able to accept what's going on now, including a busy mind? Perhaps that'll be a better way of dealing with the busy mind than actually trying to bring it to a state of peace.

Once you accept it, then return to noting. It is what it is in any case.

Cheers folks,

Some great feedback there. So I think from that i'll just keep noting what ever comes up. As I dont think I have hit an A/P event do you think this approach will be sufficent to develop concentration & investigation or should I balance it with sits in which I take a primary object eg the breath?

EndInSight........useful suggestion regarding getting Insight as opposed to The Stages.

Antero.......I think ive got my fingernails in pretty deep!...but loosening by the day.

Mu....Very true, and not just on the cushion!.....amazing how subtle these desires are.

Note until you get bright, constant itches. Then stay on those and keep watching them. Pay particular attention to their "texture." There are some pointers on this in JLaurelC's thread from Kenneth recently.

Great!...Ill check that out.

Itches are starting to arise here and there...one or two and quite weak. But I can see from other peoples journals they become more of a feature as things progress. Have you seen anything that explains what the ithces are, as I take it there not just itches in the usual sense?

"Also, see how wanting to be present or to have a particular state of mind is putting you at odds with the present moment. By desiring to be at peace and working toward that you are creating tension with what already is. It's subtle but something quite helpful to ponder. Are you able to accept what's going on now, including a busy mind? Perhaps that'll be a better way of dealing with the busy mind than actually trying to bring it to a state of peace.

Once you accept it, then return to noting. It is what it is in any case."

That's gold for me right now! I forget the simplest things sometimes.
Thanks!

"Great!...Ill check that out.

Itches are starting to arise here and there...one or two and quite weak. But I can see from other peoples journals they become more of a feature as things progress. Have you seen anything that explains what the ithces are, as I take it there not just itches in the usual sense?"

Okay, here's what my teacher here told me: he said the intensity of the itches at a certain point in the map reflects the strength of your concentration; everything gets magnified that would usually go unnoticed. That's one factor. The other factor, as I understand it, is that the Three Characteristics stage is manifested by a lot of dukkhas, so there will be pain and itching and all other kinds of stuff as you begin to gain immediate insight into the characteristic of unsatisfactoriness. Now I don't know whether these explanations are correct or all there is to it, so others who know more about this can weigh in, but that's what I've been told.