Landmarks among the Middle Paths

Hi, I'm Dan. I wanted to originally write a post that clears up the maps and introduces a mostly un-talked about stage that occurs post-Anagami, however, Kenney suggested that I first introduce myself and talk about my own experiences.

I'm usually discreet about this type of thing and don't talk a lot about my own practice but if it helps you to listen to the future things I make then I'm happy to explain some background.

I began practicing about four years ago under the Goenka tradition. Stream entry came about a year ago, with the other paths coming shortly after that. Stream entry took longer respectively for the same reason that the other paths came in quick succession and that is because I'm also sure I had to break a bodhisattva vow to get there. Once broken, the urge to help people became a forward force instead of backwards. (however this is still something I'm unsure about, not many people I can consult about it)

Anyway, here are some of the landmarks I experiences among the middle paths:

Sakadagmi:

Dark Night Into Equanimity: The big idea for the Sakadagami path involes cycles within cycles. Entering into the equanimity stages involved catching your trying to run to a new insight cycle in an effort to hold onto attachment to sense pleasures. 'maybe this time I will get to keep sense pleasures' 'maybe if I string the insight cycle this way I can get something that will work'¦ maybe I can get something solid.. something that is permanent'

Nibbanic Fruition: The fruition for the Sakadagami path felt as if it was a nibbana coming from a deeper place in the body than the previous Sotapanna nibbana. It was like the previous fruitions were two-dimensional and this new one was three-dimensional.

Anagami:

Dukkha Nanas: The feel of infinity or losing things 'forever' is one of the main new ideas of the Anagami path. This is because Anagami is the first stage where you are actually fully giving up something, attachment to sense pleasures.. (However, keep in mind that giving up the attachment does not mean you will not engage in the activity or find it enjoyable. I still do many, many of the things I used to)

Dark Night into Equanimity about Formations: The Dark night peaks as if the center of your core comes right out of you. It is very peaceful, like you just got a giant thorn out of you.

Nibbanic Fruition: The Nirvana of the Anagami stage felt as if I were being realigned with time. The key point of the feeling was that I wasn't actually being realigned with 'the one moment', it was as if I were already there. This is an important distinction. Once thought about you will realize that this must be the case. That even before enlightenment you are already perfectly stuck in the one moment.

If any of your experiences are very similar or very different, it would be interesting to hear.

Dan

I removed the post-anagami land marks. I want to be sure enough about the phase before talking about it.

"Sakadagmi:

Dark Night Into Equanimity: The big idea for the Sakadagami path involes cycles within cycles. Entering into the equanimity stages involved catching your trying to run to a new insight cycle in an effort to hold onto attachment to sense pleasures. 'maybe this time I will get to keep sense pleasures' 'maybe if I string the insight cycle this way I can get something that will work'¦ maybe I can get something solid.. something that is permanent'

Nibbanic Fruition: The fruition for the Sakadagami path felt as if it was a nibbana coming from a deeper place in the body than the previous Sotapanna nibbana. It was like the previous fruitions were two-dimensional and this new one was three-dimensional.

"

Hi Dan,

So there is something qualatative difference in the experience around fruition between the sotapanna version and sakadagami version that it could serve as an indicator that 2nd path (sakagagami) had been attained?

Eric

Hi Dan,

Let's slow down and back up a bit. What you have posted here is ideas about your experience. Tell us about your actual experience. What happened to you that makes you think you attained stream entry? This should be a clear, phenomenological report of experience, preferably without interpretation or evaluation. The point is, no one is capable of evaluating his or her own experience in terms of Paths just by reading a book. We need to work together to keep each other grounded and make sure we are using the same language to talk about the same experience. And until you have documented your stream entry, it makes no sense to be talking about later paths. Cut and pasted from our 1st exchange:

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It would be great if you could let everyone into your practice in a more concrete way before you share your thoughts ABOUT your practice. What you have written below is almost entirely your analysis of what has happened. But you haven't yet told us what happened.

For example, if you were to start a practice thread, it might say something like, "Two years ago x happened to me." You could describe x in great detail. If you are really wise, you will even let the others diagnose it for you. Or, you could just say, "I think this experience of x is the A&P. Does anyone think I may be right?" Then, you could go on to describe y and z, etc., always clearly describing the event or situation in simple phenomenological terms, with little or no self-diagnosis or speculation. If you are right about what has happened to you, you will receive validation from the others. They will begin to trust you and welcome you into the community.

ONLY THEN would it be wise to post the highly theoretical/speculative essay you have written below.

If you are willing to be patient and do it this way, I predict you will be well received here and we can all keep learning and teaching together.

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