Practicing for Life

The only thing that worries me, when I think about how this practice applies to life, is the prospect of getting pulled into yet another narrative. I'm at a point where I'm seeing all of them as so fraught with danger that I'm reluctant to go there. It's safer to talk about the maps and get some distance on whatever sensations are happening at any given moment. I expect that this concern will pass with time. I can say that at the moment, I'm going through mood swings, but I'm able to avoid essentializing them, which is more than I can say for what I was like in the past. As for my family, I suppose my husband is at this point skeptical--several yogis have spoken of the benefits to their marriages, but in my case my husband thinks I spend too damn much time obsessing about meditation and posting on this forum. I am letting this run off my back, for the most part (well, I'm lying; I try to avoid overdoing it, to avoid his disapproval). I figure he's put me through a fair share of nonsense in almost 30 years, so he can tolerate this. As I know he will

"The only thing that worries me, when I think about how this practice applies to life, is the prospect of getting pulled into yet another narrative."

Laurel, from my own personal experience, as well as from the experience of many other people who have posted here and elsewhere, the changes that come from this practice in terms of relationships are real and significant. In one sense, it doesn't matter if you get sucked into a narrative about them; one day, whether they manifest gradually or all at once, you'll recognize that there really and truly is a great benefit to this kind of work as you see its manifestation in your life. (Of course, getting sucked into narratives isn't so great for other reasons).

So, please don't worry about this; or, if you worry about it, don't let that worry affect your willingness to continue on.

For a long time, I was stuck inside the narrative in which insight made no real difference to one's life apart from some kind of internal change; but one day (maybe a year or more ago) I surveyed how much newfound clarity I had about my own psychological workings and all of the terrible ways I had treated people in the past and was inclined to treat people, and all the ways that I had spontaneously worked to change those things once seen, and how much better off I and those close to me were for it; what a surprise! The narrative was irrelevant, and everything worked itself out spontaneously despite my making almost no effort whatsoever to relate my practice to the rest of my life.

Not saying that this was the best approach, but rather that the goodness of the practice eventually trumps everything else.

" But of course, the appeal of pragmatic dharma is that it isn't watered down or silly. The Buddhist magazines kind of make me sick with all of the saccharine stuff in there. Obviously, we're not at risk of crossing that line anytime soon. "

jgroove, I agree, pragmatic dharma does offer a refreshing balance to the saccharine stuff, and it's useful when a variety of paths are available so that a variety of people can find ways to practice that fit their individual needs and style. It opened that door for me, when I found Buddhism in general to be too much about robes, candles and chanting. Much as the saccharine, psychologizing or robes-and-rituals forms of practice can offer traps the practitioner, though, i think so can a pragmatic practice, if one goes to an extreme. I think (now) that pragmatic dharma was a bit of a swing to the opposite extreme, or can be, and it's nice to hear that for many people entering by that door it did bring or is gradually bringing them the real world benefits that "end of suffering" implies.

Laurel - I don't think I've intended to imply that thinking of others means spinning in content. Certainly when sitting one sits and applies ones practice method. But it's beneficial I believe to engage with life off the cushion, too. When sitting is really deep and hard, going out for lunch with friends, calling old friends, helping someone else, taking a walk in the sunshine and so on can be supportive.
(edit for typo)

"At the darkest times, or when one is immersed in the bizarre dissolving vibrations of experience, to turn ones mind to others actually helps create a release and openness that not only benefits others (at least on some theistic magical spiritual level) but benefits the yogi by the shift in perspective. It points to the breakdown of the boundary between self and other. So even from a pragmatic practice perspective, bringing ones practice to the world is beneficial, no?"

WORD!

"Laurel - I don't think I've intended to imply that thinking of others means spinning in content. Certainly when sitting one sits and applies ones practice method. But it's beneficial I believe to engage with life off the cushion, too. When sitting is really deep and hard, going out for lunch with friends, calling old friends, helping someone else, taking a walk in the sunshine and so on can be supportive.
(edit for typo)"

Thanks, Ona--I didn't think that's what you intended. Last night, unfortunately, I was spinning in content so much that I felt incapable of doing anything other than detaching from it--but without success, I should add. Looking at what you and EIS are saying, I am hoping that there will be a change, once I'm out of this uncomfortable spot I'm in.

I do wonder, as some of the posters on this thread have suggested, if we do in fact go too far in the direction of strictly sticking to practice. I know when I do step out of that pattern on my thread I feel a little worried about it, as if people will be annoyed with me for putting irrelevant stuff in there. But then again, not all of it is irrelevant, I think.

"... if we do in fact go too far in the direction of strictly sticking to practice..."

I would state this a little differently, Laurel. The reason I started this topic was to make the point that practice isn't just what we do on the cushion and isn't just focusing on the minute things we practical dharma folks tend to focus on. Our whole lives can be our practice.

"
"... if we do in fact go too far in the direction of strictly sticking to practice..."

I would state this a little differently, Laurel. The reason I started this topic was to make the point that practice isn't just what we do on the cushion and isn't just focusing on the minute things we practical dharma folks tend to focus on. Our whole lives can be our practice.

"

Chris - just to add to this idea of practice on and off the cushion (because Laurel, reading your other thread I've been right there and know it's damn hard) . I think there have been times when my cushion time was so damn hard and intense that it really helped to take the time to "get out of my head" and do something that directed my attention to the world outside my headspace - engaging with other people in fun, social and especially physical things - going hiking with friends, spending the afternoon shopping in another town or neighborhood, helping a friend fix his bike or weed his garden, volunteering to help with community trash cleanup, etc.

Because one thing to remember Laurel - all of this stuff that's going on *will totally take care of itself*. When you sit, you just make special space for it. But deep insights can reveal themselves (and often do) when you make a different kind of space - getting out of your own way by just doing other stuff. Our cushion time is important, but quite often deep insights just pop up unexpectedly OFF the cushion, when we are not focused on trying to have them. (edit for clarity)

"Our whole lives can be our practice.

"

Exactly. I keep going back to one of the three trainings: the practice of ethics/morality/however you want to call it, is amazing. It provides insight, serenity, wisdom, and yes, (if one pays attention) it also provides insight into the nature of mind. Even if one never sits, just getting involved with everyone else, everything else, right now, can lead to awakening. Whether one is abiding or not in selfless nature, just moving along with whatever is happening with our families, friends, work, etc., gets us closer to the other 2 trainings: concentration and wisdom. Living our lives is pragmatic dharma. Just like @giragirasol says: "engaging with other people in fun, social and especially physical things - going hiking with friends, spending the afternoon shopping in another town or neighborhood, helping a friend fix his bike or weed his garden, volunteering to help with community trash cleanup, etc."

All of it, practice.

In fact, if we don't do all that, all insights and fruitions are still delusion.

It's even possible to "get out of your head" while on the cushion. I just spent an hour bringing as much attention as possible to the rise and fall of the abdomen--that and nothing more. Amazing how attention can drop into the body. After the first hour, I allowed myself to pay attention only to sensations in the abdomen and heart center. It is painful to live above the neck and this kind of practice can be a nice break from that. To me, it feels important as well, as though it's a really necessary part of physio-energetic development, if that makes any sense.

The sticky part of all of this stuff, being more loving, better in relationships, caring for others, concerned about community - is that it could easily turn practice into another self-improvement project. I've met a lot of people whose primary "practice" is just being nicer, and not much else. That kind of "be a better you" thinking has been a bit of a drag on mainstream dharma, from where I sit, and that is what prag dharma is reacting to...

But that having been said - I can't help but see that this practice has indeed made me a better husband, a better psychologist and likely a better dad than I would have been otherwise. It's just plain to me and everyone who knows me/ works with me. Why better? Because I really do feel compassion and really am present with people more than before. It's genuine. I really am able to not react to self-made stories that distance me from others. That leads to authenticity in living that is difficult to put into words but can be palpable to others. Deepening this authenticity with others, with life itself, really is the practice. It always has been, even when I thought it was about something else.

For those interested in engaging in a very practical metta practice, check out my most recent post on the topic of metta. Hope it is useful: alohadharma.wordpress.com/2011/08/14/lov...kindness-meditation/

Compassion and Wisdom - my cohorts are a rough and tumble crowd, I have to have a lot of tough love & the kind of wisdom you get from like 12 step meetings. Getting outside your own ego is essential. I can't do that without a regular sitting practice but I am sure that it is not for everyone. I counseled someone the other day if their sitting produces really horrible results try Qi Gong instead. I have to keep the mind of a good supervisor, even though I am not one; unbiased, fair-minded, not on one side of a question, but open to dialog, it is rather odd but the yogi in me plays the role of chaplain, and preaches conscious contact with a higher power. 2005 to 2011 has seen my physical condition worsen, then improve for the better. Psychologically and spiritually this has followed the same curve, so it is a reflection I believe of where I am at on the "path"

"The sticky part of all of this stuff, being more loving, better in relationships, caring for others, concerned about community - is that it could easily turn practice into another self-improvement project. I've met a lot of people whose primary "practice" is just being nicer, and not much else. That kind of "be a better you" thinking has been a bit of a drag on mainstream dharma, from where I sit, and that is what prag dharma is reacting to..."

Ron this hardcore/practical dharma practice, took me right into the heart at various points along the way (Please just refer to my practice thread to see the evidence). I consider that to be a natural part of the process and not a negative and certainly not a self-improvement project aimed at being nice. That os not what I am getting at in this topic. There's a major difference between just being nice and what happened to me over the past several years, and I worry that the heart gets lost in all the practical details. But I've already said that umpteen times here, haven't I?

"...That kind of "be a better you" thinking has been a bit of a drag on mainstream dharma, from where I sit, and that is what prag dharma is reacting to...

But that having been said - I can't help but see that this practice has indeed made me a better husband, a better psychologist and likely a better dad..."

Ironic, eh? For sure every practice approach has "traps" - but I had to chuckle when you pointed out that trap and then promptly said all that stuff about being present and compassionate and authentic. So mainstream! I'm teasing gently, because that's my experience also. The point I guess I keep coming back to is that sure, a pragmatic dharma practice may be exactly what a certain person needs and the method can be super useful. But the fruits of any dharma practice are hardly "had three blips and a sense of falling into a vortex"! The fruits are the insights and realizations of wisdom, which (should) lead to exactly the kind of compassion, love, peace, patience, presence, authenticity etc so many people are now mentioning here.

The mention of authenticity REALLY rings a bell for me. This practice has created an innate authenticity meter in my experience that was never there before. It's been exceedingly helpful, time after time after time. Does that ring a bell with anyone else here? That's the kind of thing I'm getting at. It's a macroscopic effect created by a practice that gets very microscopic, and it's helpful and leads to really nice outcomes.

"
The mention of authenticity REALLY rings a bell for me. This practice has created an innate authenticity meter in my experience that was never there before. It's been exceedingly helpful, time after time after time. Does that ring a bell with anyone else here? That's the kind of thing I'm getting at. It's a macroscopic effect created by a practice that gets very microscopic, and it's helpful and leads to really nice outcomes.


"

If I understand your meaning, yes. I see every motivation and response so clearly now that I do not unwittingly react to situations or people with the kind of defensiveness, anxiety, fear, pride, greed, etc. that used to inform many of my reactions. If those reactions arise, which they sometimes do, I see them plain as Mara and can then usually respond from a truer, deeper place (or respond from them, with a sort of weird joy in the indulgence, which is quite strange - for example thoroughly enjoying being sullen for a few minutes - though it's pretty hard to sustain when you see through it and are laughing at yourself).

"
The mention of authenticity REALLY rings a bell for me. This practice has created an innate authenticity meter in my experience that was never there before. It's been exceedingly helpful, time after time after time. Does that ring a bell with anyone else here? That's the kind of thing I'm getting at. It's a macroscopic effect created by a practice that gets very microscopic, and it's helpful and leads to really nice outcomes.


"

One of my favorite slogans from Trungpa Rinpoche is "dare to be geniune."
My interpretation of this slogan is that is has to do with tuning into the authenticity meter more and more as it develops, and then having the courage to act in an authentic way, even if it requires stepping out of your comfort zone and directly experiencing sensations associated with vulnerability. It's so rewarding for me when I actually have the courage to remember this and do it in the moment.

jgroove, there will come a time when it will appear that you have no choice but to act authentically.

"
jgroove, there will come a time when it will appear that you have no choice but to act authentically.

"

YES!

"
jgroove, there will come a time when it will appear that you have no choice but to act authentically.

"

I'll keep at it.

I like this thread because compassion and wisdom are gauges of whether or not we are growing at all - rather objective ones. It is easy with a very intense sitting practice to lose objectivity. If the part improves its relationship to the whole, then that is a proof. Authenticity is about a conscious recognition that all sentient beings are on a spiritual path and we share much in common regardless of how we go about our lives.

Authenticity is some sort of growth that occurs as a natural result of the path that really doesn't get talked about enough, I think.

As things develop for me I am finding that it really is one of the most profound of the profound changes. It influences everything... but how do we describe "authenticity" to those who don't know what we're talking about?

One way to look at authenticity is that it is simply living closer to the Truth. The more we live in a way that is at odds with the Truth the more we suffer. If we strive to manifest something that doesn't exist or reject our current experience, we are creating pain by moving away from the Truth. Acting without resistence in the present moment is the closest we can get.

Can someone say explicitly what "authenticity" means? Does everyone agree on the kinds of things it means? I'm not sure how y'all are using the word, and I've heard it used in so many different ways in life, that some clarification may be helpful.

For me, inauthenticity is about protecting the contracted sense of self and staying in the "cocoon," as they'd put it in Shambhala. It's about hiding out and staying safe.

Authentic behavior is behavior that is rooted in presence--in being with whatever's arising, even if the sensations arising are unpleasant and difficult.

}Authenticity" in the way I meant it is not easy to explain. It's not "right" versus "wrong" and it's not being or acting according to some predetermined set of laws, guidelines or precepts. Since somewhere in the middle of technical third path it has meant being able to "see" intent very clearly and act accordingly. But that's not all that accurate either. It's a felt sense, not something that can be written down or described well in words. If you start to feel it you will know it, for sure. It's a recognition of things (yes, things) or people that are genuine, real, not pretending to be something else, not false or fake or doing something that is outside that thing's or person's natural pattern.

Here's an example - listen to Jimmy Page play the guitar on almost any Led Zeppelin album track, and then listen to a guitar on a Muzak track in some store somewhere. Guess which one sounds authentic? Apply that to everything.

Sorry, it's just not easily laid out.