Selfish practice vs. dedicating the practice for the benefit of others

It recently occurred to me that during a large period of my practice, I was merely motivated by the idea of liberating myself.
Although I also knew and thought that doing so would benefit others, I was in the centre field.

I was laying in bed a few days ago and remembered Nikolai writing about how his wife was his major motivation for practice, and it then occured to me that dedicating one's practice for the benefit of others is very helpful and appealing.

May I gradually rid myself of suffering tendencies so that I may stop inflicting useless suffering onto my loved ones and random people.

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May I gradually rid myself or suffering tendencies so that I may stop inflicting useless suffering onto my loved ones and random people."

here here! me too

"here here! me too "

Me too. I think it's a nice gesture to make every time you sit, even if you don't believe it or it just seems like a formality at first. In time it comes to really feel nice and true.

For me I think it mainly helps notice this selfish tendency which can creep into the practice, while realizing im not doing this for myself.

I use "may all beings benefit..." a lot in my practice. I even say "may all beings benefit" when I start eating, i.e. by this action of me eating this meal may all things benefit. To cut a long conversation short, I think it's a good reminder of intent and I think the universe kinda recognizes it, too. Almost like it is a form of banishing ritual... maybe more like a universe appeasing ritual.

I almost forgot: the thing I like about the expression is that the individual is included in "all beings" so it covers everyone. Sometimes in western culture, it is easy to martyr oneself. It is important that everyone, including oneself, is worthy of the benefit of good things in life.

Or, if you're like me, a superstition

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Or, if you're like me, a superstition

"

Yeah, I knock on wood and I say may all beings benefit.

"I almost forgot: the thing I like about the expression is that the individual is included in "all beings" so it covers everyone. Sometimes in western culture, it is easy to martyr oneself. It is important that everyone, including oneself, is worthy of the benefit of good things in life."

Yeah, this is an important point, betawave. I like "may all beings benefit", "for the benefit of all", and similar phrasings for the same reason.

And in this connection I like the notion of relative and absolute bodhicitta (awakened mind) in mahayana: relative awakened mind is imperturbable good will to all beings, the pure intent to benefit all. Absolute awakened mind is the deep, referenceless clarity that neither self, nor others, nor any things at all actually "exist"--- no matter how vividly they appear! --Jake

I like Thanissaro's take on metta being good will and not exactly loving kindness.

"metta is not necessarily an attitude of lovingkindness.It's more an attitude of goodwill'”
wishing the other person well,but realizing that true happiness is something that
each of us ultimately will have to find for him or herself,and sometimes most
easily when we go our separate ways." Thanissaro

dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/CrossIn...a_means_goodwill.pdf

"I like Thanissaro's take on metta being good will and not exactly loving kindness.

"metta is not necessarily an attitude of lovingkindness.It's more an attitude of goodwill'”
wishing the other person well,but realizing that true happiness is something that
each of us ultimately will have to find for him or herself,and sometimes most
easily when we go our separate ways." Thanissaro

dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writings/CrossIn...a_means_goodwill.pdf
"

Why is it important to distinguish? (perhaps I should ask Thanissaro himself!) Would it be a disaster to practice if someone felt loving kindness instead of good will? There's little enough of either in the world. Better people should accidentally be too loving or too kind than find reasons to hold back, no?

"Why is it important to distinguish? (perhaps I should ask Thanissaro himself!) Would it be a disaster to practice if someone felt loving kindness instead of good will? There's little enough of either in the world. Better people should accidentally be too loving or too kind than find reasons to hold back, no? "

Nice.

"Why is it important to distinguish? (perhaps I should ask Thanissaro himself!) Would it be a disaster to practice if someone felt loving kindness instead of good will? There's little enough of either in the world. Better people should accidentally be too loving or too kind than find reasons to hold back, no? "

Sorry girasol, I did not intend to convey that it was important to distinguish and not cultivate loving kindness. Re-reading my post I don't think I said that distinguishing was important. I just said I liked Thanissaro's take on the term 'metta'. It corresponds with my own experience. Did you read his take on the term 'metta'? Do you disagree with it? I thought it interesting and possibly beneficial to consider as it may help in one's practice.

Edit: "This doesn't mean that lovingkindness is never an appropriate expression of goodwill.You simply have to know when it's appropriate and when it's not.If you truly feel metta for yourself and others,you can't let your desire for warm feelings of love and intimacy render you insensitive to what would actually be the most skillful way to promote true happiness for all." Thanissaro

I wholeheartedly agree with the above quote.

"Sorry girasol, I did not intend to convey that it was important to distinguish and not cultivate loving kindness. Re-reading my post I don't think I said that distinguishing was important. I just said I liked Thanissaro's take on the term 'metta'. It corresponds with my own experience. Did you read his take on the term 'metta'? Do you disagree with it? I thought it interesting and possibly beneficial to consider as it may help in one's practice.

Edit: "This doesn't mean that lovingkindness is never an appropriate expression of goodwill.You simply have to know when it's appropriate and when it's not.If you truly feel metta for yourself and others,you can't let your desire for warm feelings of love and intimacy render you insensitive to what would actually be the most skillful way to promote true happiness for all." Thanissaro

I wholeheartedly agree with the above quote.
"

your clarification clarifies.

That said, having read the full article, I do not think he is wrong per se, but I still think I would rather see practitioners encouraged to fall into the unskillfulness of being too loving and kind than to fall into the unskillfulness of being insufficiently so. They can learn to tone it down and be more skillful later (in fact, I suspect they will naturally find that place in most cases). But it is so hard for many people to have any kindness or love for themselves or others, it seems preferable to overcorrect the problem rather than undercorrect it.

i'm finding that as I get deeper into the practice the distinction between practicing for myself and for the benefit of others gets pretty blurry. There is a sense that (and I know this sounds a little cheezy) I'm connected to others at an emotional level. Even total strangers standing in line at the coffee shop.

I don't know how to explain this feeling, but it has gradually grown in strength since 4th path. There is some kind of linking together that takes place at a level way below awareness, and I think I'm finally getting a little flavor of that.

Now, when I practice metta it doesn't really have an object. It is not directed at me, or at others. I might envision my baby boy at first but it quickly transforms into something like a jhana, where the feeling of metta is itself the object. From this perspective there is no distinction between giving warmth and comfort to myself, or to anyone else. We really are all connected together is some way that is pretty mysterious. I'm a pretty rational type of person and that is not my preferred way of looking at things, but I can't escape it...

I find that dedicating my practice to the benefit of others keeps me going when I am feeling sh*tty or aversive.

When I'm writhing in pain, feeling like my brain is rewiring itself, and my nerves are frazzled, my head swimming with aversive thoughts about religious nonsense and b.s. dogma, I just remember, that I'm trying to walking this path not just to get to the end, but also to hack away some of the branches so that it's easier for others to follow. It somehow makes it all worth it!

And of course, I am having a much, much easier time of it, thanks to people like Big Sid G, Mahasi Sayadaw, U Pandita, Bill Hamilton, Kenneth, Daniel Ingram and everyone here who has helped me out so much, hacking away so that there was a path to begin with.

"I find that dedicating my practice to the benefit of others keeps me going when I am feeling sh*tty or aversive.

When I'm writhing in pain, feeling like my brain is rewiring itself, and my nerves are frazzled, my head swimming with aversive thoughts about religious nonsense and b.s. dogma, I just remember, that I'm trying to walking this path not just to get to the end, but also to hack away some of the branches so that it's easier for others to follow. It somehow makes it all worth it!

And of course, I am having a much, much easier time of it, thanks to people like Big Sid G, Mahasi Sayadaw, U Pandita, Bill Hamilton, Kenneth, Daniel Ingram and everyone here who has helped me out so much, hacking away so that there was a path to begin with."

This is so well-said!! My takeaway from this - if it ever gets hard to see how practice can be of benefit to others, I'll just think about obvious it is that others' practice has brought benefits to me!!

"... if it ever gets hard to see how practice can be of benefit to others, I'll just think about obvious it is that others' practice has brought benefits to me!!"

Very good point! And if one considers that every moment, experience, person, or thing can be a teacher... well then.

"i'm finding that as I get deeper into the practice the distinction between practicing for myself and for the benefit of others gets pretty blurry. There is a sense that (and I know this sounds a little cheezy) I'm connected to others at an emotional level. Even total strangers standing in line at the coffee shop.

We really are all connected together is some way that is pretty mysterious. I'm a pretty rational type of person and that is not my preferred way of looking at things, but I can't escape it..."

Nicely said.