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Assessing one's practice through dreams
- EndInSight
- Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #82573
by EndInSight
Assessing one's practice through dreams was created by EndInSight
After my recent transition in practice, I have noticed a number of interesting things with respect to dreaming, and have been wondering to what extent these things shed light on something fundamental.
In the past, one idle question I often asked myself is, "if I have so much insight into no-self, why do my dreams play out approximately as before?" In other words, I seemed instinctively to consider myself a unitary self during my dreams, which could get tangled up in (self-created) drama just as much and to the very same extent as before. Even at 4th path, when I was supposedly so highly attained, any differences in dream content were minimal.
On the other hand, my dreams right now are quite different.
Immediately after this transition, and for a number of days beyond that, it seemed to me that I simply had no dreams whatsoever. However, as time has passed, I realize that this is not true. What is true is that my dreams are so unmemorable that the likelihood of my recalling them is very small.
The dreams that I do recall are quite mundane. They are often simply me talking to someone else about something. There is no drama; the storyline is minimal; there is a simple situation or simple conversation topic, I speak, the other parties speak, and that's it. Even when we disagree, it is immensely civilized (like a formal debate); it is completely passionless; I state my ideas, the other parties state theirs, and we alternate until the issue is resolved. (It always appears to get resolved very quickly).
It strikes me that this indicates very clearly how profound the change in my moment-to-moment experience has been. All the way through 4th path, attainment seems to have been mostly a matter of convincing the conscious mind that there was no real identity around. (cont)
In the past, one idle question I often asked myself is, "if I have so much insight into no-self, why do my dreams play out approximately as before?" In other words, I seemed instinctively to consider myself a unitary self during my dreams, which could get tangled up in (self-created) drama just as much and to the very same extent as before. Even at 4th path, when I was supposedly so highly attained, any differences in dream content were minimal.
On the other hand, my dreams right now are quite different.
Immediately after this transition, and for a number of days beyond that, it seemed to me that I simply had no dreams whatsoever. However, as time has passed, I realize that this is not true. What is true is that my dreams are so unmemorable that the likelihood of my recalling them is very small.
The dreams that I do recall are quite mundane. They are often simply me talking to someone else about something. There is no drama; the storyline is minimal; there is a simple situation or simple conversation topic, I speak, the other parties speak, and that's it. Even when we disagree, it is immensely civilized (like a formal debate); it is completely passionless; I state my ideas, the other parties state theirs, and we alternate until the issue is resolved. (It always appears to get resolved very quickly).
It strikes me that this indicates very clearly how profound the change in my moment-to-moment experience has been. All the way through 4th path, attainment seems to have been mostly a matter of convincing the conscious mind that there was no real identity around. (cont)
- EndInSight
- Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #82574
by EndInSight
Replied by EndInSight on topic RE: Assessing one's practice through dreams
(cont) The conscious mind restrains the "instinctive" mind during waking life, and so I found myself becoming more relaxed and reasonable as time went on. However, turn the conscious mind off, and let the instincts run amok, and all that stillness enforced by conscious restraint would suddenly vanish! But now, the lack of passion that I experience during waking life is unrelated to any conscious restraint, and so when the restraint is loosened during dreams, nothing at all interesting happens; no drama is created; there is just calmness.
On the other hand, it is striking that, in a dream, where there are no significant limits on what kind of experience will be created, I still habitually "write myself in"; I create a body for myself; I create a social persona; I create other people to interact with. It strikes me that this is the residual "shadow-being" that is left in operation...the residual conceit that afflicts a 10 fetter anagami. Perhaps in the future, if I make further progress, my dreams will be completely formless.
Do you think that your dream-life sheds any light on your own personal progress down the path? If so, in what ways? How are your dreams similar or different to your waking experiences?
On the other hand, it is striking that, in a dream, where there are no significant limits on what kind of experience will be created, I still habitually "write myself in"; I create a body for myself; I create a social persona; I create other people to interact with. It strikes me that this is the residual "shadow-being" that is left in operation...the residual conceit that afflicts a 10 fetter anagami. Perhaps in the future, if I make further progress, my dreams will be completely formless.
Do you think that your dream-life sheds any light on your own personal progress down the path? If so, in what ways? How are your dreams similar or different to your waking experiences?
- JohnFerguson.
- Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #82575
by JohnFerguson.
Replied by JohnFerguson. on topic RE: Assessing one's practice through dreams
I think dream life can shed light on one's own personal progress. I'll speak about my own personal experience.
-After attaining first path (which I did not realize at the time), I went to bed that night and had a dream that a baby was born and when he came into the world, he did not cry. The next night, I had a dream in which I got onto a gondola that was going to the top of a very high mountain. I was still uncertain whether I had gotten first path or not, so the next night, before going to bed, I made a resolution to know if I had attained first path. That night I had a dream in which there were 4 light bulbs in the corners of my visual field, one of which was lit up, while the others flickered. I was also experiencing Witness consciousness during this dream. I took this as a very clear sign that I had attained first path.
-I have experienced Witness consciousness or some sort of unitive consciousness during my dreams from time to time. This has increased with frequency as I have progressed along the path. This parallels my current waking life experience.
-Religious and spiritual figures pop up from time to time in my dreams, much much more so than ever before. Sometimes we have discussions or they teach me things. There is one recurring female "guide" who has an energetic body yet no physical form. In waking life I've had a fair amount of synchronicities centered around this dream character.
-After attaining first path (which I did not realize at the time), I went to bed that night and had a dream that a baby was born and when he came into the world, he did not cry. The next night, I had a dream in which I got onto a gondola that was going to the top of a very high mountain. I was still uncertain whether I had gotten first path or not, so the next night, before going to bed, I made a resolution to know if I had attained first path. That night I had a dream in which there were 4 light bulbs in the corners of my visual field, one of which was lit up, while the others flickered. I was also experiencing Witness consciousness during this dream. I took this as a very clear sign that I had attained first path.
-I have experienced Witness consciousness or some sort of unitive consciousness during my dreams from time to time. This has increased with frequency as I have progressed along the path. This parallels my current waking life experience.
-Religious and spiritual figures pop up from time to time in my dreams, much much more so than ever before. Sometimes we have discussions or they teach me things. There is one recurring female "guide" who has an energetic body yet no physical form. In waking life I've had a fair amount of synchronicities centered around this dream character.
- JohnFerguson.
- Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #82576
by JohnFerguson.
Replied by JohnFerguson. on topic RE: Assessing one's practice through dreams
-In one instance, dreams helped guide my practice. I had a dream in which Bernadette Roberts was walking in my front yard, reciting a mantra, "the love of Christ" over and over. Upon waking, I did not know what to make of it, but later that day, I realized that I should be focusing more on metta practice, which I did.
-I lucid dream occasionally. In general, as I gain more experience with this, non-lucid dreams take on lucid qualities. For example, I may be unaware that I am dreaming but still fly around or do telekinesis.
-I've had a fair amount of pre-cognitive type dreams, or dreams where I've gotten information that I was not previously aware of. In one simple example, I was dreaming of a good friend of mine. I realized that he wanted to talk to me and woke up. He lives across the globe, so I went onto my computer, signed onto Skype, and he immediately messaged me. We then talked over Skype for about an hour, which is something we don't normally do.
-I lucid dream occasionally. In general, as I gain more experience with this, non-lucid dreams take on lucid qualities. For example, I may be unaware that I am dreaming but still fly around or do telekinesis.
-I've had a fair amount of pre-cognitive type dreams, or dreams where I've gotten information that I was not previously aware of. In one simple example, I was dreaming of a good friend of mine. I realized that he wanted to talk to me and woke up. He lives across the globe, so I went onto my computer, signed onto Skype, and he immediately messaged me. We then talked over Skype for about an hour, which is something we don't normally do.
- JohnFerguson.
- Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #82577
by JohnFerguson.
-I think the most interesting thing that has happened in my dream life is going through the progress of insight in dream form (up to the 8th nana). I decided to take my lucid dreaming to the next level after reading a book called Advanced Lucid Dreaming. It describes how to take certain supplements which impact neurotransmitters thereby affecting dreaming. Anyway, I followed its recommendations and went to bed. I had a series of eight dreams, essentially vignettes, that changed from one to the other. I was lucid the whole time, and actually noted occasionally. Upon waking, I wrote the dreams down and numbered them. After looking them over, I quickly realized that they were definitely the nanas. I even had an A&P event in which the whole dream flashed and a loud voice from the dream spoke to me. Shortly thereafter, the dream dissolved (Dissolution) and I maintained awareness while there was no real dream, just blackness. After that, I entered a pretty scary nightmare (Fear), and things continued until I got to the 8th nana and woke up.
Replied by JohnFerguson. on topic RE: Assessing one's practice through dreams
-I think the most interesting thing that has happened in my dream life is going through the progress of insight in dream form (up to the 8th nana). I decided to take my lucid dreaming to the next level after reading a book called Advanced Lucid Dreaming. It describes how to take certain supplements which impact neurotransmitters thereby affecting dreaming. Anyway, I followed its recommendations and went to bed. I had a series of eight dreams, essentially vignettes, that changed from one to the other. I was lucid the whole time, and actually noted occasionally. Upon waking, I wrote the dreams down and numbered them. After looking them over, I quickly realized that they were definitely the nanas. I even had an A&P event in which the whole dream flashed and a loud voice from the dream spoke to me. Shortly thereafter, the dream dissolved (Dissolution) and I maintained awareness while there was no real dream, just blackness. After that, I entered a pretty scary nightmare (Fear), and things continued until I got to the 8th nana and woke up.
- beoman
- Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #82578
by beoman
Replied by beoman on topic RE: Assessing one's practice through dreams
"Do you think that your dream-life sheds any light on your own personal progress down the path? If so, in what ways? How are your dreams similar or different to your waking experiences?"
For sure, I've noticed dreams corresponding to insight nyanas. One particularly memorable A&P dream is when I found myself in a scientologist church, where I paid them $50 to be allowed to touch a metal orb, which electrocuted me, causing a fruition (I was already a stream enterer at that point).
Had many fruitions in dreams.. some painful experiences, where it felt like my face was rotting away. Some of my favorite and most clear progressions through the progress of insight have actually been in lucid dreams, staring at a bowl of water, where the water would take the shape based on the nyana. Fascinating stuff.
Also when being really obsessive about AF, e.g. being really committed to it on a vacation, I'd have dreams of chatting with Richard (though I've never seen him I imagine him to be a white-bearded friendly chap), asking him what I need to know to do it, etc...
And also lots of nightmares in the dark night which were helpful in revealing things that I didn't realize during waking consciousness.
But no, dreams haven't fundamentally changed since any paths... in terms of 'me'. Still the same old, just flashier.
I actually find it hilarious how our consciousness will entirely shut off, there will be some images during sleep, we wake up, and we think those images were 'us', that 'we' were experiencing them, that 'we' were in them. Just images, no?
It also makes me wonder about the fundamental nature of consciousness. What makes the consciousness that is being experienced in this consciousness's experience, this particular consciousness? It seems to be linked in some way. I am looking forward to investigating this further when I am AF.
For sure, I've noticed dreams corresponding to insight nyanas. One particularly memorable A&P dream is when I found myself in a scientologist church, where I paid them $50 to be allowed to touch a metal orb, which electrocuted me, causing a fruition (I was already a stream enterer at that point).
Had many fruitions in dreams.. some painful experiences, where it felt like my face was rotting away. Some of my favorite and most clear progressions through the progress of insight have actually been in lucid dreams, staring at a bowl of water, where the water would take the shape based on the nyana. Fascinating stuff.
Also when being really obsessive about AF, e.g. being really committed to it on a vacation, I'd have dreams of chatting with Richard (though I've never seen him I imagine him to be a white-bearded friendly chap), asking him what I need to know to do it, etc...
And also lots of nightmares in the dark night which were helpful in revealing things that I didn't realize during waking consciousness.
But no, dreams haven't fundamentally changed since any paths... in terms of 'me'. Still the same old, just flashier.
I actually find it hilarious how our consciousness will entirely shut off, there will be some images during sleep, we wake up, and we think those images were 'us', that 'we' were experiencing them, that 'we' were in them. Just images, no?
It also makes me wonder about the fundamental nature of consciousness. What makes the consciousness that is being experienced in this consciousness's experience, this particular consciousness? It seems to be linked in some way. I am looking forward to investigating this further when I am AF.
- NikolaiStephenHalay
- Topic Author
14 years 3 months ago #82579
by NikolaiStephenHalay
Replied by NikolaiStephenHalay on topic RE: Assessing one's practice through dreams
"
Also when being really obsessive about AF, e.g. being really committed to it on a vacation, I'd have dreams of chatting with Richard (though I've never seen him I imagine him to be a white-bearded friendly chap), asking him what I need to know to do it, etc...
"
He looks like an aussie bushman santa clause. Look at the bottom for free sample videos of him talking.
actualfreedom.com.au/sundry/dvdinfo.htm
Also when being really obsessive about AF, e.g. being really committed to it on a vacation, I'd have dreams of chatting with Richard (though I've never seen him I imagine him to be a white-bearded friendly chap), asking him what I need to know to do it, etc...
"
He looks like an aussie bushman santa clause. Look at the bottom for free sample videos of him talking.
actualfreedom.com.au/sundry/dvdinfo.htm
