Career, Spouse, Children - a Busy Life and a Practice?

How do those of you with full time jobs and families, especially families consisting of young children, deal with finding the time to practice effectively? Do you go on retreats? Can you find that kind of time? How much time can you realistically devote to practice on a daily basis? I was able to squeeze in a fair amount of practice time, but I was never able to go on retreat and have not done so even to this day. I have a very busy career with lots of travel and a family that is comprised of my wife, our four children, two dogs and three cats.

How about you?

cmarti, thanks for this. I remember from a couple of years ago I was very interested when you described a little of your early, pre-stream entry practice. You mentioned what sounded like some pretty imaginative approaches to finding practice time, and to practicing in busy circumstances, with challenging work and family responsibilies. I was always interested to hear more about your own experience if you are OK with discussing that. Especially with how effective your practice has been since then.

My circumstances sound pretty similar to yours but I've always struggled with how to keep the ups and downs of circumstances from making my practice momentum go up and down. I'm still trying to find a way with that.

Just to offer a couple suggestions from friends who meditate and have very very busy schedules: one does his practice each morning at 3am (for many people a natural break in the sleep cycle), getting up to sit for 30-45 minutes and then returning to bed until 7 when he gets up for work. The other does his daily practice at around 9 or 10pm after the kids are in bed.

I get up at 5:30, do meditation and yoga before work. I try to get in another session in the afternoon, either during work hours for a break or when I get home. If the evening goes well I'll do something before bed. If I have insomnia and wake up in the night I do itt the way giragirasol's friend does. I also have a super helpful husband who doesn't mind if I go on retreat. Our son is old enough to put up with my absence for awhile. I won't be able to do the 3-month IMS retreat for awhile, but that's okay. Chris, I didn't realize you'd never gone on retreat. Wow.

Ona, I could never get up at 3 AM

I used to, and still do sometimes, go to the office at 6 AM and use the limited access to the file server room (I'm the IT manager) lock myself in there (or in the telephone closet) and sit for 30 minutes every morning. The only downside is having to sneak out when I thought no one was looking. I'm in a small company so the building has only a few good hiding places. The cool thing was that the whining of the server fans was a great object to focus on when I wasn't focusing on the tip of my nose or my upper lip. I'd also go home early on those days and sit for another 30 minutes before anyone else got there. I was pretty inventive about finding out of the day places to sit, but my all time favorite is in the window seat on a long flight.

When I travel for work I get a lot more sitting time in hotel rooms and empty meeting rooms.

No retreats for me either. I don't have time =P I don't have kids either but it is difficult to practice these days. What I've done is use any spare time, down time, etc. (while being stuck in traffic, when I wake up, in the supermarket, meetings). And now I am able to practice while working and talking to people, not always but its happening more often.

I've always found that A) my inspiration to practice formally has come from glimpses in everyday life, so I've never felt that formal practice was the *essence* of the path and anything I did discover in formal practice, I always wanted to generalize it into my everyday experience (or at least, explore why that was difficult as an active practice itself in everyday life). Different folks (and one individual, for that matter) are probably inclined to balance formal and everyday-life practice in different ways at different times and i think that's great.

In terms of formal practice, on work days when I leave at 6.15am I get up at 5 and sit quietly on a cushion with my coffee for 45 mins. On non work days I get up with my son (3yrs old) and often sit for 30-45mins while he plays before making us breakfast. I usually sit for an hour or so after he goes to bed, although not always, and sometimes during his nap (if I don't take one, or have homework or chores).

Doing physical tasks I like to practice in various ways, as well as lying down at bed time and first waking in bed. Basically, anytime I notice I'm here, I can find some approach of practice or non-practice that is useful (or useless, as the case may be ) It helps to become familiar with a variety of methods and approaches that are appropriate in different circumstances.
-Jake

Just the other day I was on a Skype call with some KFD yogis. They were quizzing me about my practice, but I had to cut the call short--my wife came home early with my eight-year-old twin boys and I knew they were about to come bursting into my office as they always do. On this same call, Andy asked me whether I ever brought a playful attitude to practice. I had to answer "no," and so I've been thinking about this lately. How can I use playfulness and experimentation to help me stay present, given my responsibilities?
Yesterday I went to a park with the kids after they got home from school. While they were on the playground, I did walking meditation on the track that surrounds the equipment. I could keep an eye on them as I walked. I tried to turn it into a game--each time I passed a certain tree I'd start a new "lap," and the goal was to make a whole lap without getting embedded. It ended up being quite fun.

Sometimes I get bummed out a bit about not being able to do a retreat. My ailing in-laws live with us and require constant care and attention. My wife has a full-time job and I have to bring in a legit, full-time salary by writing freelance articles for trade magazines and PR firms. My kids' schedules are incredibly hectic, with constant birthday parties, Cub Scout meetings, baseball games, chess tourneys, homework and more. Going on a 10-day Goenka retreat or what have you is not an option because it would be a massive burden on my wife. So getting creative about practice seems really important for me if I'm going to be able to make some kind of progress through the paths. Andy's question about play was important. I need to stop focusing on what I can't do as a result of my responsibilities and on what I haven't been able to achieve and, instead, make practice more like play!

Retreats are an unnecessary luxury

I've done pretty much zero retreats. I did one retreat once, which was just a weekend (Friday evening to Sunday lunch) at a local Buddhist center. More recently I've done one with my teacher, which was more like summer camp for grown ups and consisted largely of a dozen fellow students, so it was as much a social get together with dear friends - except we meditated twice a day. So in no case have I done a "hardcore" or long term retreat ever. I do do "mini-retreats" on weekends with my husband - we try to sit three times a day (30 minutes each) on Saturdays, or more if we can, and a little extra on Sundays (by Sunday afternoon it's time to start prepping for Monday's workday, so that usually takes over our schedules).

Anyone who helps care for ailing in-laws is an automatic candidate for sainthood . And having little boys to love and cuddle is as good as a year-long metta retreat. Still, these things present challenges. My biggest challenge is integrating my practice time with my daily life time, in the manner of several others who've commented on this thread. It's terrifically difficult for me to do, and I lose momentum all the time. But now that I realize how far people go with full lives, I find myself less inclined to whine about my life.

"My biggest challenge is integrating my practice time with my daily life time, in the manner of several others who've commented on this thread. It's terrifically difficult for me to do, and I lose momentum all the time. But now that I realize how far people go with full lives, I find myself less inclined to whine about my life. "

This is my biggest challenge as well. But I do see the role that attitude has played in this. For some reason, I have a strange tendency to regard on-the-cushion meditation as this very special thing that I mostly look forward to and enjoy. Why, then, should staying present in daily life be any different? And yet I seem to see this as a chore or impossible task and to feel unable to get any traction with it. Maybe a different attitude will help.

That sense that "being present in daily life" is a thing that you "have to do" is the killer. Recently I had a big turnaround when I read this question: "How hard do you have to try, to see with your eyes?" Riffing on that, I started to ask myself everywhere I went, "Did I make any "effort" to make this moment what it is? Did I have to "try" to have this experience? (Hint: no and no... but if you try this out, don't look at the answers first )

If you can step in during those moments when it feels like "life" is keeping you away from "practice" and ask: "Did I make this moment happen? Can I make it un-happen?"

That's all that "presence" is. That's all I was being asked to do all along.

By the way, for inspiration, check our Dr. Thynn Thynn, who teaches the *whole path* as daily-life practice: www.saetawwin2.org . (See the powerpoint + audio dhamma talk about practicing in daily life at the bottom of this page: www.saetawwin2.org/links.html

"That sense that "being present in daily life" is a thing that you "have to do" is the killer. Recently I had a big turnaround when I read this question: "How hard do you have to try, to see with your eyes?" Riffing on that, I started to ask myself everywhere I went, "Did I make any "effort" to make this moment what it is? Did I have to "try" to have this experience? (Hint: no and no... but if you try this out, don't look at the answers first )
"

a most excellent practice.

"That sense that "being present in daily life" is a thing that you "have to do" is the killer. Recently I had a big turnaround when I read this question: "How hard do you have to try, to see with your eyes?" Riffing on that, I started to ask myself everywhere I went, "Did I make any "effort" to make this moment what it is? Did I have to "try" to have this experience? (Hint: no and no... but if you try this out, don't look at the answers first )

If you can step in during those moments when it feels like "life" is keeping you away from "practice" and ask: "Did I make this moment happen? Can I make it un-happen?"

That's all that "presence" is. That's all I was being asked to do all along.

By the way, for inspiration, check our Dr. Thynn Thynn, who teaches the *whole path* as daily-life practice: www.saetawwin2.org . (See the powerpoint + audio dhamma talk about practicing in daily life at the bottom of this page: www.saetawwin2.org/links.html



"

Awesome, Rob. Thanks!

I like what jhsaintonge and Rob said. Not being able to do noting practice doesn't necessarily mean you are not making progress.

I have a wife and two daughters (17 months and 4 years old).
My daily formal practice usually consists of an hour noting out loud when the kids are sleeping (although I'm trying different stuff too).

Concerning informal practice, these are some of the things I've done:

I often make the distinction between A) situations where I'm interacting with other people and when I'm not. With noting practice is usually possible, except while doing things that requires thinking. And even then there are short opportunities in between (I take short breaks using this app: www.focusboosterapp.com/ ). With A) I try to keep a gentle focus on emotional physical sensations and talk thought. Like while dealing with the kids when they are being stubborn. Actually that's my main practice.

One of my faves is also noting (out loud) while doing chores like vacuuming.

When I'm at the park or swimming pool with the kids, I use them as my "meditation objects". I'll repeat their names in my mind (a bit like a mantra) while not losing sight of them. When I'm distracted, I return to those meditation objects. In general I try to keep all my attention on the kids.

"I like what jhsaintonge and Rob said. Not being able to do noting practice doesn't necessarily mean you are not making progress.

I have a wife and two daughters (17 months and 4 years old).
My daily formal practice usually consists of an hour noting out loud when the kids are sleeping (although I'm trying different stuff too).

Concerning informal practice, these are some of the things I've done:

I often make the distinction between A) situations where I'm interacting with other people and when I'm not. With noting practice is usually possible, except while doing things that requires thinking. And even then there are short opportunities in between (I take short breaks using this app: www.focusboosterapp.com/ ). With A) I try to keep a gentle focus on emotional physical sensations and talk thought. Like while dealing with the kids when they are being stubborn. Actually that's my main practice.

One of my faves is also noting (out loud) while doing chores like vacuuming.

When I'm at the park or swimming pool with the kids, I use them as my "meditation objects". I'll repeat their names in my mind (a bit like a mantra) while not losing sight of them. When I'm distracted, I return to those meditation objects. In general I try to keep all my attention on the kids."

Great stuff, Omni!
With a 17-month-old and a four-year-old, you've got LOTS of practice opportunities, huh?

@jgroove You bet!

I'm married, with one child in middle school and another in college.

Time is a rare commodity at home, so in addition to formal, eyes-closed sits, I try to practice as much as I can off the cushion. The vast majority of the time, I do way more off-cushion practice than formal sitting. The informal practice is not just busy-work, though. I've had strong insights while doing it.

For the formal sits, I sit for 40 minutes in my car at lunchtime 3-4 days a week, and maybe 2-3 times a week at home, including weekends. I also walk when when the weather cooperates.

Off-the-cushion practice is what really seems to keep the momentum going for me, though.

I start with my morning commute. I'll sit for 10-15 minutes in my car before starting out. This is usually enough for me to move into the cycle and get to my cutting edge. Then, I'll slowly open my eyes and sit still for a minute or so, working to stay in whatever state I'm in. I'll very mindfully start the car and proceed on the road, continuing to note. On most days, I can get 40-45 minutes total of practice from the time I start until the time I get to work. The ride home is pretty much the same, and these alone adds 5-7 hours of practice to my week.

I also have an out-of-town meeting every few weeks, and I treat the whole experience as a mini-retreat. I note on the 1.5 hour drive, sit before the meeting, sit after, and note all the way home. This is usually good for 4.5 hours of good practice.

When I shop, I often sit for 5 minutes before and 5 minutes after, and try to maintain mindfulness during the time in the store. I take advantage of very short opportunities to count 10 breaths, to note, or even to simply be aware of what's going on around me. Meetings, breaks, walks down the hall, walks between buildings, appointments, etc. are all good for a few moments of awareness and all help to keep momentum going.

I´ve only done one 2-day retreat, this fall. The rest is daily practice at home mostly.
My main formal practice is done just before bedtime when my family has closed their lights.
This sometimes makes it to late and gives me not enough sleep, but works most of the time.
But I can also extend the practice while falling asleep (goes by itself mostly).

Other ways I have used to sneak in practice:
* Parked the car close to work 10-15 mins (just leave home a little earlier.)
* Parkbench at lunch.
* While traveling by bus, train, air etc. Long journeys can be a mini-retreat!
* Walking in corridors or just anywhere ("direct mode")
* 1-minute meditations at office.
* Exercising; noting or jhana while spinning or treadmill. Two workouts in one!
* Instead of taking a nap. Works just as well and is more accepted by family sometimes. ...no teasing from my daughter.

" With [interpersonal interactions] I try to keep a gentle focus on emotional physical sensations and talk thought. Like while dealing with the kids when they are being stubborn. Actually that's my main practice.
"

Here here To me this is the heart of why I practice at all, and the experiential zone both most productive of insights and most reflective of actual wisdom/ignorance and compassion/selfishness: the interpersonal dimension. This is what keeps me honest about my limitations *and* this is where the real miracles and magic happen!
-Jake

Guys, this is all seriously inspiring stuff. As a PhD student, with a supportive partner and no kids, I really have no excuses and your diligence in practice is a wonderful spur to make the most of the time that I have now, before all the stuff that you're juggling hits my life

Much metta
Andy

"Here here To me this is the heart of why I practice at all, and the experiential zone both most productive of insights and most reflective of actual wisdom/ignorance and compassion/selfishness: the interpersonal dimension. This is what keeps me honest about my limitations *and* this is where the real miracles and magic happen!
-Jake"

Exactly, my two residential gurus remind me in time where my cutting edge is.

I used to be very methodical about this.

a. I got up early (4:30 the latest) to get solid morning practice. I extended the high quality mindfulness until I was at work. This way I got 3.5 hours of practice each morning.

b. I identified all the routines during the day (and for a householder there are many). By definition routines do not require much attention so all that time can be used for noting practice.

c. Basically there is no time during the day when one cannot practice; it is just the question of figuring out the ways to do it. If nothing else is possible during demanding periods at work, one can always keep 5 percent of the attention at some point in the body (usually where there is most activity at that time) and continue to note when it is time to get up from the desk for the printer.

d. This way every day can be a retreat with (almost) seamless mindfulness practice, it only takes more time and effort to build the routines. And it is always possible to try to beat one the next day

@Antero Wow! I guess you go to bed quite early then?