Question about kriyas and movements.

I recently realized that my body seems to naturally want to do the rhythmic crazy movements that some call kriyas. Some are very subtle pulsing of muscles and others are full blown dancing. I rarely do this because I do not allow myself to do it, in a sense I kind of repress it because I tense up and believe that I must be calm and still. However based on what I have read on other threads they seem to have a role in moving energies and stagnation/blockages. My intuition tells me that this is true. The only reason I do not involve myself in them is due to a fear of activating some kind of kundalini energy stuff that Ive read can make you go insane or even kill you... I know this is all from the internet and not all can be believed but something that threatens to cause psychosis or death is not taken lightly however beneficial you may think it is. What inspired me to post this was the an anecdote that a fellow meditator friend (not buddhist, he does all sorts of mysticism and contemplation stuff) shared with me where he was dancing to whatever the energies in his body forced him to and he said it was a great experience that provided him with clarity. I have experienced that strange dancing sort of thing a couple of months ago but stopped myself in fear that it may be harmful or someone would walk in and see me looking insane

Anyways, what are everybody's thoughts on this? Should I go with it, or avoid it?

To me, kriyas appear to be completely side effect and not goal. If I am doing a practice that is causing kriyas and I think that practice is beneficial then I don't suppress them. (edit: unless they are bugging me or others around me, then I suppress them)

Kriyas seem to be a common and natural side effect of meditation for many people. I never suppressed it the during meditation, but I didn't encourage it either - I just let my body do whatever it was doing, twitching, jerking, waving my arms around, etc and kept my focus on whatever technique I was doing (noting, watching breath, broad awareness, etc.). Getting up and dancing or whatever is not going to make them come or go - but it might feel good anyway. But it's not the same as meditating. So if you find you want to move around and "let it out" - go for it. But then at other times when you meditate, just meditate, and don't focus on the kriyas (neither suppressing them nor being particularly interested in them. Just let them do their thing by themselves.) The "kundalini will kill you" thing is largely a bizarre urban legend. It can feel very strange when these energy movements start kicking around. There are aspects of energy work that can be very disorienting and uncomfortable, if you start training in certain kinds of yoga (tummo, kundalini yoga, etc.) without taking it slowly and following guidance. But pretty much everyone I know who has meditated for more than a couple years has at a time gone through periods of intense kriya activity, sometimes very, very intense. It works itself out after a while and goes away. A friend of mine once practiced in a center where they had a "kriya room" - when people's meditation got so full of kriyas that they were becoming a distraction, attendants would quietly escort them to the kriya room, where they could thrash around and yelp without bothering the other meditators.

Alright, I guess I'l just let it happen without any fears of any other side effects.

For the last 30 days I have had occurances of kriyas. I too don't supppress or encourage them. I put them into my meditation. This morning was typical. About 40 minutes into a 60 minute sit, i started moving my arms slowly in strange postitions and stretching them up and out. I kept my noting pace steady throughout. Moving, stretching, pain (in my shoulder), jirking. Then the mental noting: agitation, debating (whether I should try to not move or not), evaluating, judging, restlessness, relief and so on.

Sometimes I hold back the movement (noting holding back) for a time and just feel the discomfort. Other times I just let the movement happen. I let both the holding or moving happen without my "I" being involved. I find the whole thing fascinating.

jack

In case you haven't seen these, here's Shinzen on the subject:
Kriyas and the Cloud of Unknowing


Kriyas and Complete Experiences

I've had lots of cramping, spasming, and intense grimacing on and off for a few years now while meditating. In fact, trying to find *anyone* who would say something useful about this is what landed me at Daniel Ingram's site and his book (and hence here). The kriyas are clearly stronger when I'm in 3 characteristics or dukkha ñana territory, but I find they can appear anywhere on the map.

It is now often very clear to me as a pressure wall of 'energy' moves up the spine and hits very contracted areas in my chest/neck/head and triggers the spasms. When I am less contracted, the flow moves easier and there are fewer spasms.

I appreciate Shinzen's take: spend some time letting the kriyas do as they want, some other time holding them back. Experience both.

In a session with Kenneth, while all this stuff was cramming its way awkwardly through my neck, he asked me, "What are you resisting?" I never did come up with a great insight-answer to that! But keeping Shinzen's idea in mind, if I tried to hold back the spasm releases, then a great deal of muscular tension would build up. I realized I was resistant to that tension(!) So for a while, it seemed particularly fruitful to 'repress' the spasm/release and let the tension build.

(cont'd)

On the other hand, I had a Goenka assistant teacher who told me to go ahead and release the tensions as they arise, as well as to not let extreme movements take place -- as in discouraging me from letting myself flop around like a fish (which was what I was doing after an extreme post-course A&P event.)

So I have sometimes tried to engage in wise manipulation, trying to relax/open in a way that reduces the kriyas, or releasing the pressure very quickly as it arises. This has included using "allowing" in my noting, as in "allowing" the energy/pressure to move upward through my body as it seems to want to, since my kriya-triggering tension seems to be a type of resistance to that flow. I was asking Kenneth whether this was manipulation in a negative sense, and he said we can indeed make a distinction between 'manipulation' and wise shaping of our responses.

I take it all as a process of release of deeply, habitual contractions, to be treated with patient observation - and with careful consideration of our impact on others. Fortunately my partner is accepting of my ugly grimacing and spasms during our ping-pong noting sessions. Gradually, my upper chest and neck seem to be relaxing more and more at very deep levels. But it can be a long process for some of us.

I should also note that I've been using kriyas to help get insight into mind states. When I first read about the 'disgust' dukkha ñana, I thought, "Hmm, I've never experienced that." But in the last two years, observing my face move into positions of distaste or disgust, I've taken that as a clue -- and started to become more sensitive to the mind state of disgust. As a result, I learned there was much more disgust reaction in me than I had ever realized or wanted to admit. The kriya spoke a truth.

"I should also note that I've been using kriyas to help get insight into mind states. When I first read about the 'disgust' dukkha ñana, I thought, "Hmm, I've never experienced that." But in the last two years, observing my face move into positions of distaste or disgust, I've taken that as a clue -- and started to become more sensitive to the mind state of disgust. As a result, I learned there was much more disgust reaction in me than I had ever realized or wanted to admit. The kriya spoke a truth.
"

I had that exact experience, too, at times and that was also how I started noticing the cycles as they are described here. My upper lip would curl up like I smelled something bad.

Thats some great information modalnode. I definitely see the tension as resistance (which is something I feel very often) and thats why I was wondering if kriyas might be a good way to dissolve the resistance. In a sense I may have been having resistance to kriyas since they may dissolve other resistances, as a defense mechanism in itself to avoid certain things.