I smoke pot, and I have some questions. (I think I want to quit)

Namaste, brothers and sisters!

I have been a daily pot user for about five years, and am wondering what y'all have to say about this Path and marijuana? I haven't gone more than a week without pot for a long time, and the thought of stopping is somewhat scary (it has been a crutch of mine), but I feel that it is a big waste of time and money. More than that, though, I feel very hazy; I feel very insensitive, dull. I do not have much motivation to exercise or meditate. Most days, I get off work and sit around smoking weed until it's time for bed. On my days off, it's the same thing; only to a greater extent.

Any kind words would be greatly appreciated.

Humbly,
Zen

Hey man.

I hear you.. Different people have different relationship with pot and its effects, I found them detrimental to happiness, and addictive, too.
From my own experience, I felt so high after צט first retreat, that I never wanted pot to ruin that 'higher' high again with pot.
But, again, different people have different experiences and opinions on the matter.

My experience tells me that the more I meditate, the less I want to use drugs, and that the more I use them, the less I am able to truely meditate.

I recently watched a spoof of "Super Size Me" called "Super High Me," about a comedian (whose material is mostly about weed) who decides to smoke pot nonstop for thirty days. To compare, he first has to NOT smoke pot for thirty days, which I thought gave him some very funny material for his standup routines. He does a bunch of medical and mental testing during both periods. You might enjoy it.

I used to smoke quite often, many years ago. Daily at points, when it was easily available. I didn't meditate back in the day in any case. It used to be a way to shake off the dregs of the tedious day and feel different, relax, be more absorbed in the moment. Since meditating for several years I'm naturally more absorbed in the moment and find what's going on in daily life quite interesting in itself.

One pragmatic strategy for shaking off the tedious work day and getting out of your head is to put some fun music on your iPod gadget and go get some exercise right after work. If you can find a friend to do it with, it makes the motivation stronger. The main reason I stopped smoking often was because I moved and couldn't be bothered to seek out new sources. I got involved in other activities, spent more time outdoors, had a new job. Sometimes, if you are very stuck in a habit, that kind of shake-up can be just the thing to help reorient you. It's harder to shake a habit (overeating, nailbiting, watching TV all evening, anything) if the whole of your routine stays the same.

I always thought it was interesting that Trungpa Rinpoche had no problem with his followers drinking, so long as their arses were back on the cushion the next morning, but specifically prohibited weed. I seem to recall that he said it created a kind of false echo of the meditative state that was an obstacle or somehow damaging to the yogi's practice. (Obviously, there are a number of problems, to put it mildly, with the idea that alcohol is fine.)
I seem to recall at least one KFD yogi asserting that weed had a deleterious effect on his vipassana practice.
Substance addiction is tough. Three out of four of my grandparents were alcoholics, and I flat love both drinking and weed. However, I've given them up to pursue practice. Now coffee is an entirely different matter!

What does Flat Love mean ?

"What does Flat Love mean ? "

Just a colloquial expression from that hotbed of vipassana practice, the Southeastern United States.
An over-the-top way of saying "I tend to enjoy."

Part of what makes pot so insidious is its relative lack of harm. You can just keep going with it and never "hit bottom." I can relate to jgroove's comment about Trungpa. It can give you a taste of meditative experience, or even full-blown A + P experience. Looking back, I think I used it for years as a cure for "dark night" symptoms, among other things. But then it gets in the way. The harm it does is in the time it takes from me. It isn't physically addictive, but its enjoyable, and we're attached to enjoyment. Have you considered doing a retreat? You might come out with a different perspective.

Shinzen Young had the same issue:

Everything I enjoy about weed and alcohol--- the clarity, spaciousness, present-centeredness, spontaneity-- arises naturally in mind as a result of practice (without the side effects: memory issues, motivational issues, dizzyness...

Oh and I can corroberate that a common theme in Vajrayana circles is weed-no, alcohol-ok. It seems to be a pretty consistent Tibetan bias generally, whatever the origin. A friend of mine claimed that weed is a sedative on astral-mental levels, which as an esoteric explanation probably is relevant to why tantric groups (whose methods are partly working on those levels) would eschew weed. Alcohol doesn't have that problem. Tobacco is also looked down upon in Tibetan circles (to say the least).

But don't no one touch my coffee

As for practical advice, Zen, I think Gira has the right idea: it's tough to just disrupt one element of the tightly-woven tapestry of daily habit. From talking with friends who identify as addicts-in-recovery, as well as professors who specialize in drug and alcohol treatment, I gather that the environmental and social cues which go along with addiction are huge (intravenous opiate users will inject anything, just to inject something, for instance...). So busting up those routines a bit, especially with exercise, could be helpful.

Do you have any luck at cutting back a bit? Or is it all or nothin for you do you think?

Might be the case that cultures tend to be okay with their own traditional medicines, but not those from other places? That is, in lands where hashish has long been used, hashish might be tolerated but alchohol might be taboo. In places where alchohol has a long history, alcohol tends to be legal and tolerated, while marijuana is considered iffy or bad. Of course it can change over time with the migration of people here and there, etc. ?

Yeah, could be In any case, I've noticed that the deeper into the Path I go, the more purely physiological (rather than psychological) are the affects of whatever substance on my system.

Another human foible is the easier something is to do, the more we'll do it mindlessly. So in studies where a bowl of candy was set on a table in front of the person, they would just keep eating candy all day. If they had to get up and walk across the room to get it, they ate much less. If they had to go the store and buy it one piece at a time, they rarely bothered. We can use our laziness to our advantage by making our bad habits less convenient.

hahaha! Yes, that is why I generally don't have any candy or sweets at home!

Everyone: thank you so much for your wonderful replies, I am flabbergasted! There are so many replies, I do not know where to begin responding.

I can understand why circles won't allow weed, to say the least.

And as for going on a retreat, I do not imagine I can get together the funds to partake. Does anybody have knowledge of cheap retreats? Preferably in Florida (Tampa, area).

www.patapa.dhamma.org/

They take donations. Too far?

A Swiss Army Knife version:

www.retreatfinder.com/Directory/Faith/Buddhist.aspx

On both the weed and alcohol topics, its simply up to the individual to pay attention to cause and effect and see if its something they continue to want to do. I have modified my environment and daily patterns to remove most things that I find have negative effects. When I do drink, I am reminded of the negative effects and my motivation is rekindled to continue to optimize my environment.

Now, if you're drunk or stoned (or just eating carbs) all the time, you may not experience enough of the absence for your mind to clearly see the cause and effect. A 30 day challenge is an excellent tool for seeing what your baseline could be.

Someguy77: thank you for your very specific help. That center is only five hours away. Now time to figure out how to take ten days off of work . . .

I want to endorse someguy77's reccomendation.
A 10-day Goenka retreat is what really helped me kick the habit.

Shinzen Young also said he kicked the habit in a 10-day Goenka retreat.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but in my experience, marijuana use is seriously out of harmony with the spirit of the fifth precept. The way I understand it, the fifth precept exists to warn us that intoxicants can lead us away from mindfulness, and in turn, cause suffering. This has been the case for me. I was a regular marijuana user from the age of 17 to 24. I stopped using it to try to move forward in life. I had very little direction to follow though, so I continued to follow cravings. After approximately 5 years away from pot, I philosophized my way back to it. I only used marijuana for 6 months this last time. It ended with the almost total destruction of the person I love the most in this world. My girlfriend had a complete mental breakdown, caused by fear of the consequences of use. This allowed her emotionally abusive grandmother to come in and take control of her. I have not been able to see her since, but reports from credible sources have confirmed that her condition has worsened. Through expression of our cravings, our lives were torn asunder. Karma caught up with us in this life. I personally, cannot fathom a circumstance that would justify going back to marijuana use again. While most of the combined time I used marijuana only resulted in being lost, it eventually created great suffering. In my view, any action with such destructive potential is not worth trying to gain benefit from. It seems to me, justification of drug use is one of the delusions that opens us, and all who are close to us to suffering of the highest degree.

I began regularly using weed medicinally for two years, and not only did it help me physically, but it also has helped me mentally. It has helped me to focus on my spiritual path, and believe it or not, it has helped me to lose weight. Since I started it regularly I have lost 20 lbs, became (mostly) vegan, and have started exercising in the form of bicycling daily. The weed helps me to see that everything is a meditation, and some days I do the Weed Meditation and some times I do the Sober Meditation (or the Negative Meditation, or the Angry Meditation, etc.) So, yes a 30 day challenge is an awesome suggestion, then see if you can still use weed but use it more wisely.

Unwinding addiction is challenging. In my journey Gabor Mate (an addiction specialist) has provided essential insights into addiction causes. This is my favorite talk of his amongst a host of amazing discussions:

Offspring, can you say more about your spiritual use of cannabis, and your Weed Meditation? I see what you mean about it showing you that everything is a meditation as weed can bring a childlike sense of wonderment and magical new-ness to everything, but I never found it conducive to actual meditation practice, especially not as a beginner.

Nadavspi, definitely not for beginners!! I'm 42 years old and have been using regularly for a few years now, but started when I was 13. And, it has become very useful to me. Limited, but useful both physically and mentally. The best way I can describe it is telling you the story of a zen monk, who after studying for many years went to his teacher and said, "I think I am ready to go." The teacher then said, "Hmm, that may be, come, I'll see you to the monastery gates." When they arrived at the gate there was a very large rock, a boulder. Just as the monk was about to depart his teacher said, " Do you see that boulder there? Where is that boulder?" The monk replies, "Well, it's in my mind, of course." Then the teacher said, "That's going to be a very heavy thing to carry around on your trip, perhaps you'd better stay a little longer."