Another money rant

Yadid/Chris,

Good points. I hadn't really given it much thought, just kinda throwing out an idea that popped into my head.

I was sort of thinking of how you don't see the term sati thrown around much, you see mindfulness, etc.

When someone from a more traditional background sees "Kenneth Folk Dharma" as opposed to Kenneth Folk Meditation Teaching Over Skype or something, it probably sets off a lot more alarm bells for them.

Personally I don't care either way.

I agree Chris, the Dharma is indeed super-free nowadays, and so widely available, for those who know how to seek and where, differentiate trash from gold and so on.

Jayson: But Kenneth isn't teaching just meditation, he's actually teaching Dharmic Meditation - practices aimed at seeing the causes of, and elimination of suffering, taught by the Buddha, passed on to countless people over time, leading to Kenneth Folk

He's definitely not forcing anyone to pay, and he is also offering most of his teachings for free, and also chats with me for free once in a while, so I'm happy with that.

Some people are happy with just whatever they can get for free, even people's advice, and some people actually need some sort of formal teacher-student relationship, and for those people, this is more suitable for.

I agree. Thanks Yadid.

"I think it may be helpful to move away from the term dharma as well as other loaded buddhist terms. "

Actually, I agree with you. (I think.)

When people say "the dharma" should be free... I'm not sure what they are talking about.

Here's a case study that happened to come up at dinner. The guy of the couple we had dinner with happens to be heavily involved with one of just a few Theravada centers in Brazil. Last weekend they had a two-day workshop with an important and imported Bhante - a well known teacher of good reputation. The classes were filled - about 40 people attending. The Bhante refused to be paid, but the center has costs: managing the old building they are housed in, which suffers like all buildings here from the tropical conditions and needs repairs to the systems, etc.; the cost of airfare (at least $800 or more); feeding 40 people for lunch; besides costs incurred over time such as purchasing cushions and mats for the meditation hall, computers and books for the library; and so on. The center is run by a young couple who are very devoted and enthusiastic, having studied extensively in the US. They have one full time employee. There was the usual "please give generously" pitch and a basket set out.

He counted the money at the end of the event. It was a few hundred dollars (equivalent). 20% of it was his own donation. Of the 40 people attending - most are regular participants at the sangha, so their lifestyles are known - five were college students. The rest had full time middle class or upper middle class level salaries. I've attended similar length events in the US and paid $200 or $300 for the weekend. This coming weekend they are hosting Bhante Gunaratana to teach a two day retreat, which I am looking forward to attending. It is also "free".

I'm brainstorming ways to help them raise funds from other sources (grants? kickstarter campaigns? tote bags and calendars?). It's great to have a Theravada center here, as there are very few. The predominant Buddhist centers available are Tibetan and there's a little Zen here and there. If anyone has ideas, feel free to share by PM or on the thread.

Chris,
Your suggestion that these fees are "modest" is great...for you, and those who make enough for $70/45 minutes to be considered modest. For the rest of us, try a little compassion or empathy when you make your sweeping financial judgments.
As far as your suggestion that these teachers who charge are in fact bastards, I'll take your word for it. I don't know Kenneth or his parents and feel unqualified to comment on him or any other teachers in this regard. I would however suggest that anyone who would make such a suggestion be immediately removed from this forum for making inappropriate and unsupported accusations. But I guess Kenneth subtly suggesting that the fellow in the video is approaching violent intolerant fundamentalism may also qualify as inappropriate and unsupported accusations. So continue weeding out those who disagree with You.

B.Rice: I'm sorry that you are frustrated about this. There are many ways to view money and it is unlikely to be a concept that everyone can come to agreement on - and thats just fine.

If you re-read Chris's comment about "greedy bastards ", the smiley face is intended to denote playful sarcasm.

B.Rice, it's kind of interesting, this idea of taking sarcasm too seriously. I suspect there are many, many teachers available to you and me and anyone else who cannot afford to spend $50 an hour, or half hour for the time of a teacher. But let's be practical and clear -- everyone who finds themselves in this society has to find a way to make do, whatever their avocation. Maybe you can suggest a new model that could work better?

Also, can you possibly let us in on how and what you practice, how you learned to practice, from whom, and give us just a little view into why your opinion on this topic is as it is?

Thanks!

"I suspect there are many, many teachers available to you and me and anyone else who cannot afford to spend $50 an hour, or half hour for the time of a teacher.

"

On that note, does anyone know of good teachers who are willing to just take what a person can afford based on their level of income?

Honestly, I feel that I'm missing out on the personal guidance of a teacher, and I can't help but feel that Dharma has now become one of those things that only the priviledged rich have access to.

-Tina

"On that note, does anyone know of good teachers who are willing to just take what a person can afford based on their level of income?

Honestly, I feel that I'm missing out on the personal guidance of a teacher, and I can't help but feel that Dharma has now become one of those things that only the priviledged rich have access to.

-Tina"

Tina,
I feel that MOST dharma teachers do not charge anything, nor do they have a suggested donation.

What makes you feel that only privledged rich have access to dharma teachers?
I got all of 'My Dharma' for free, and continue to do so.

Have you started a practice thread on this forum listing your experience and detailing your daily practice?

"Have you started a practice thread on this forum listing your experience and detailing your daily practice?"

Yes, I have started a practice thread, but since I can't affort internet I seldom have access enough to keep up with it.

Tina

I cancelled my internet account again, and when I can, I steal some company time at work just to peek at what's going on here.

Even now, posting at work is risky.

Tina,

Where are you located (if you don't mind me asking)? It may be easier to find a local teacher than an online one.

"Tina,

Where are you located (if you don't mind me asking)? It may be easier to find a local teacher than an online one."

Hi mumuwu,

I'm in northern New Jersey, US.

Tina,
have you ever done a meditation retreat / are interested?
Usually on retreats, one has a chance of developing a better solid practice while having daily access to a teacher.

Are any of these within reach?

buddhist-directory.org/nj.php

@ Yadid: Retreats are on the list of dream items to do. Lack of time and money requirements haven't allowed me to go on retreat. I'll look into short weekend retreats instead.

@ mumuwu: Thanks for the list. I've just looked into some of these. Some are no longer in existence, and the one closest to me asks for a membership fee. I'll keep plugging away! Thanks for your help!

-Tina

Tina - Kenneth lived in New York and taught at Rockaway, New Jersey up until recently. Perhaps you could email him or Beth for a suggestion.

Most or all retreat centers I've been to had a scholarship option if you ask about it. I took advantage of that a few times.

Money and the dharma can coexist perfectly well, so long as no one is excluded. That's why I like the idea of paying your teacher a similar amount to what you would earn for a similar kind of work, including prep time. That way people who have the cash can give more, and those who earn less won't be cut off.