Crown Chakra, 1st Path Question.

In a thread from 2010 NickH wrote:

"The anicca door: 1st path: The fruition occurs at the crown. There is a very slight movement backwards or forwards of the head when this occurs. The eyes "seem" to tense slightly at the entrance and they get slightly tenser as the cessation moment approaches and a point directly below the crown within the brain feels like it is tensing too. The cessation moment occurs, and then the exit feels like the eyes and that spot within the brain below the crown release the flexing/tensing sensation. It feels like the bliss wave that follows is felt more at the heart spot. Or maybe the bliss wave seems to be activating it...Hmmm."

I am having a lot of interesting perceptual meyhem going on when I hang out in the crown chakra, but never anything that fits the decriptions I read of nirodha.

I basically just go thru the chakras in the sequence of the Gayatri Mantras short form, but not saying the mantra, just using the chakras as points of focus and with pranyayama breathing.

In breath, focus at brow chakra 1 second,
Out breath, race down the backbone and focus at Root charka 1 second,
On next in breath race up the backbone: sex chakra 1 second, navel chakra 1 second, and on same breath then race up to crown and hold for 12 seconds (maybe three breath cycles)

Repeat let in breath land mark you into the brow again.

It get great momentum going, almost piston engine-like + the more times I go thru the sequence the wilder it gets perceptually at the crown, but no nirodha. When I am in the crown chakra it's very wobbley, like not sure which way is up, and I have no sense of the rest of my body, can't really tell I am breathing even though the in breath leads me into the brow chakra after what feels like 3 breath cycles or so, and then back into the sequence again. I came up with this myself, and as a practice it feels very right for me, but:

Anyone got any suggestions on how to push this over the top and get nirodha? Or better yet can someone who is good with nirodha try out that formula and let me know how to tweek it to get nirodha?

Thanks!

"Anyone got any suggestions on how to push this over the top and get nirodha? Or better yet can someone who is good with nirodha try out that formula and let me know how to tweek it to get nirodha?

Thanks!"

Stop 'pushing' when the entire field of experience is being seen panoramically and diffuse (11th nana) and simply allow phenomena to do its own thing. The 'pushing' part, the tendency to 'try' and achieve is what makes it frustratingly slow to flip. Drop ideas of this chakra and that chakra and allow those thoughts to be seen within and a part of the entire field of experience where formations/fabrications of mind arise and pass. 'You', the feeling of being a seperate entitity is a fabrication as well. Allow it all to arise and pass. The synching up (cessation) will occur without 'your' help as 'you' is simply being seen as arising and passing phenomena now. Cessation is when there is a letting go of phenomena, a letting go of the fabrications that are labeled as 'self', not when it is grasped at (pushing).

Mark --- Thanks for this thread Mark, never heard of that technique before.

Nick --- can i just pick your brain --- if using noting, do you stop noting once you get to panoramic vision (i.e. 11th nana)? i'm getting eye pressure which builds up but then dissipates. i've tried "squeezing" it to increase the eye pressure, which it sort of does, but it doesn't help, it still dissipates.

"Nick --- can i just pick your brain ---"

Hi Jacki,

In my own experience, I stopped noting when I got to high equanimity (most diffuse and panoramic part of 11th nana), and noting would stop by itself and the mind would be able to see all the movements of mind with ease and letting go of the fabrications of mind as they arose, seeing them as ephemeral, transient and substanceless as well as impersonal was also easier. However, I would have moments of 'anticipation' as though something 'big' was about to happen. In those moments the mind would narrow its focus from diffuse and panoramic and lunge onto the thought of anticipation, wanting that something big to happen for 'me'. In those moments of lunging and grasping, I mentally noted to continue the flow of dispassionate paying attention.

What significance does 'eye pressure' have for you? What does 'squeezing' and increasing 'eye pressure serve? Is the mind grasping at some result doing so? Is this a diversion? Or is it serving some higher purpose in your practice?

If you are referring to the 'pressure' I described above in the description of before and after a cessation moment in my past experience, then that only occured when there was a letting go of phenomena, a dispassionate letting go of the grasping tendency of mind. What you describe above seems to be simply feeding the grasping tendency of mind, not letting it go. The path is one of letting go, not 'squeezing' in my experience. If I were you, I'd drop the notion of 'eye pressure' and just observe and note 'pressure', note it and then note the next thing that takes centre stage and so on. Let go of expectations and the grasping tendency of mind.

But that is just me. You do what you feel leads to progress.

Nick

Thanks for the detailed answer nick, i appreciate it. Jacki