Using a Mantra

I started off meditating years ago with TM using a mantra which I used in a daily practice for over 10 years. Since then I have used the breath for concentration work but haven't reached the deep hard concentration state that I used to get with a mantra. I am finding mantra concentration different than breath concentration but that might be a factor of time in practice or effects from my other meditation practices. Do any of you use a mantra? Experiences?

jack

Jack, what are the differences you have found? I struggle with this because as far as I can tell concentrating on any object (a mantra, the breath, a kasina, whatever) tends to lead to pretty much the same concentration states unless I am letting something else happen at the same time. In other words, it is not the mind state that appears to differ, but rather the object.

So I'd like to compare notes, too!

Hi Jackha,

I also started with TM many years ago. Only did it for 2 years daily, and then occasionally before starting Buddhist meditation around 2007.
In my experience anapanasati and TM feels a lot different. First, TM is extremely simple to learn and do.
I also suspect I got into 5:th and 7:th jhana with it. (Or something that can be described exactly as 5:th and 7:th is described.)
Also this much easier than with anapanasati.
On the other hand I did not feel I got something out of it except for stress relief, and later dullness.

I think I will try a TM session tonight just for fun...

PEJN: That is exactly my experience. Last night I did 20 mn of anap. and 20 mn of mantra.

Chris and PEJN: i do seem to go "deeper" with a mantra. I think a mantra works so well with me because I had so much experience with it not because of the meditation object. jack

Deeper is not necessarily "different" however, right?

I would say the vipassana element in TM is so very small so the samadhi is easier to cultivate. And that gives the states another "flavour". Also since no focus is on any bodily sensation "formless" is also easier cultivated.

Deeper is different in that it is deeper. This being deeper changes it significantly.

I add to PEJN's comment that TM keeps my mind more occupied than anap. This helps in reaching that still, formless state.

jack

Jack, I'm trying to bring some clarity to this. In each jhana there is a flavor, a color, a tone. It's the same "feeling" no matter how deep into that jhana one progresses. So when you say "different" and then "deeper" those are two very different things. If you are not talking about jhanas then I'm not sure what you are talking about.

So, are you moving from one jhana to the next when you say "different" or are you going deeper into the same jhana?

Chris, I have never paid much attention to the different maps you guys use so I can't answer your question. I'm just reporting my experience.

jack

Jack, don't you think it helps to be able to define your experience with some specificity? Clarity? Shared meaning?

A jhana is not a map. It's a state, specifically a concentration state. It's very useful to be able to talk about these states in reasonably specific terms because otherwise we end up talking past each other. Outside of any context words like "deeper" and "different" make little sense. So it really does help to be able to assign meaning to the terms we use to talk about this stuff. The specificity has helped me greatly over the years and it is commonly used by "us guys" because it is useful. That's what this particular website has been dedicated to -- using shared concepts, meaning and terminology to help us all in our practice.

This short article might be helpful:

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Deeper+Into+Jhana

I'm really only trying to help but yes, in a specific way. I suspect a concentration state is a concentration state is a concentration state across all the spiritual traditions because we share the same anatomy, brain chemistry, biology. My conversations with practitioners from many traditions bears witness to this, so if we can adopt a common language, a set of terms, that can be used to describe these things we can then make some headway ion conversations like this one.