Question of Nutrition

Today browsing the web, I came upon the term "Nootropics".. this caused me to wonder what we might have to say on the issue of nutrition and meditation/mindfulness. I just did a super quick search of the forum and didn't find any threads relating to this topic. Does anyone have anything to say? Just concerning nutrition particularly conducive to mindfulness - not necessarily about "nootropics".

I was just browsing the forum after posting that and found some relevant posts in another thread by Jgroove and Orasis, things that helped in general health, leading the way to the more contemplative stuff

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4624836/The+Tollbooth

Technically whatever you are experiencing is conducive to insight - whether you have chronic pain, jittery nerves, stomach problems, are too hot, too cold, etc. It's all there for the mindful observation. That said, being in good health, as your conditions in life permit, is always a good thing in itself, and a balanced diet and exercise, fresh air, sufficient sleep and so on are all good for ya. Monastic traditions tend to emphasize simple diets and avoidance of intoxicants, which is partly to help people de-emphasize their usual obsessions with yummy food and self-indulgence. If one takes away something, such as a favorite food or drink, one can become more aware of how attached one was to it. Recognizing our attachments to things is always useful. Self-punitive austerity, however, can be a trap of its own.

Personally I've pretty much always eaten what I please. I occasionally fast or abstain from things for brief periods (the morning, for example) as part of ritual practices, but it's a bit of a gesture, I think, not a necessity.

Yeah. Me too, so far, but I am becoming a little apprehensive that it may take a prettty good length of time for me, so I am slightly interested so far about what I might be able to do to enhance the speed of this process. If anyone has anything to say about it, maybe an experience of baseline health, or maybe an idea or thought related to mindfulness in its most modern sense as neurogenesis or whathaveyou, it may be greatly appreciated

Well you can always do mini self-retreats, such as on a Saturday lock yourself in your room, eat only tea and rice, and meditate for tons of hours, doing sharp and precise noting or other applicable technique. Or consider your time during the week: any time you spend playing video games, watching TV etc could be spent meditating... In the beginning time on the cushion and strict application of technique help a lot to get things moving along. I'm not convinced dietary changes are going to impact progress in meditation, though if you believe they will that belief may have an impact. For example you can decide to no longer eat something as a symbol of your commitment to practice, and it serves as a constant reminder of your intention...

I think energy work practices (yoga, tai chi, qi gong, tummo, etc.) can also speed things up, for what reason I don't know, but it seems to help some people.

Heh yeah, I do those - just finished a 10 day self retreat. By the end of this summer, I'll have put in 60 days of pure meditation :

About those energy work practices, do you know of any that don't require much physical exertion? It is definitely not a talent of mine

Don't be lazy! lol. Tai chi and qi gong are very powerful but do not involve vigorous movement. Small subtle movements and postures are used to move the energy in the body. Some yogas, like hatha yoga, are also about holding postures and different breathing patterns, rather than vigorous jumping around. And tummo is largely breathing exercises and simple postures.

I'm not a fan of wild exertions myself, and find qi gong really powerful and fun.

There's a long thread on tummo here: kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/4377529/%E2%80%8BTummo

As my practice deepens I find diet intimately intwined with progress (bringing more wisdom). For one thing a lot of my cravings (misery) center around food. Lately Ayurvedic traditions have brought new insights into this human body. I feel much more grounded by working with my bodies rhythms (for the first time in my life). Just two examples: body does all it's detoxification between hours of 10 pm and 2 am, being asleep during this period enables the process (body supplies melatonin after 8 pm if you do things like not stare into a bright crt screen). In the morning digestive trac is not primed, simple hot foods best at this time like a steamed pear or apple, with spices such as coriander and cinnamon. From 10 am to 2 pm digestive fire is at it's peak and can handle most foods. I can go on but everyone is unique, find a trusted wise Ayurvedic Practitioner if you want to explore these amazing (not so) subtle facets of developing evermore wisdom and insight. IMHO highly recommended.

Dan Siegel, MD has collected some cutting edge information on neuroplasticity. There is a series of talks on the Upaya site which covers his paradigm and he has a few books. Somewhere in all that information he goes into a list of things-- behavioral, nutritional, attentional, social-- that enhance neuroplasticity. So it is definitely possible to arrange a set of conditions that would facilitate the formation of new neural patterning which could conceivably get you more bang for your buck, particularly on retreat perhaps. If I come across the list I'll post it here but I gave away the book and can't remember which installment of the podcast covered that topic (but I think it was towards the end of the series). Maybe later I will actually remember some of the things on the list

The Siegel research sounds intriguing!

If you have the time for ten hours worth of podcasts I highly recommend the Upaya series he did with Joan Halifax. I thought it was really neat that he came to meditation from his research in neuroplasticity, psychotherapy and well being. very interesting, wide ranging exploration, which reminds me of Wilber in its emphasis on 'integration' as a sort of universal description of well being (on various levels, individual and collective, biological, experiential, relational...). But unlike Wilber, Siegel really focuses on very concrete mainstream scientific research: brain science, longitudinal studies of well being and evidence based practices in psychotherapy, etc.

I was initially a skeptic, but I have come to believe that a little daily piracetam is useful in the meditative arts.

"If you have the time for ten hours worth of podcasts I highly recommend the Upaya series he did with Joan Halifax. I thought it was really neat that he came to meditation from his research in neuroplasticity, psychotherapy and well being. very interesting, wide ranging exploration, which reminds me of Wilber in its emphasis on 'integration' as a sort of universal description of well being (on various levels, individual and collective, biological, experiential, relational...). But unlike Wilber, Siegel really focuses on very concrete mainstream scientific research: brain science, longitudinal studies of well being and evidence based practices in psychotherapy, etc."

Definitely a fan of the 30 second "Cliff's Notes" versions of things. But thanks for the tip! I know a few others who might be interested, and can tell me about it afterwards.

I asked my father (who is in the biotechnology business) about piracetam, remarking that (according to the wiki) it enhances cross hemisphere coordination/communication through the corpus callosum, and he said that the drug he would recommend for that is Vyvanse.

It is right that meditators have thicker corpus callosums, right?

He was also fairly adamant that one should definitely obtain prescriptions, saying that there have been many journals that claim the quality of the drugs coming out of various online distributors are really bad

"I asked my father (who is in the biotechnology business) about piracetam, remarking that (according to the wiki) it enhances cross hemisphere coordination/communication through the corpus callosum, and he said that the drug he would recommend for that is Vyvanse.

He was also fairly adamant that one should definitely obtain prescriptions, saying that there have been many journals that claim the quality of the drugs coming out of various online distributors are really bad"

Don't know anything about Vyvanse, but I believe some have advocated various stimulant type drugs for jhanas. I have no experience there and tend to stay away from that substance area.

The wiki on piracetam does mention the corpus callosum thing, but it also mentions a hundred other things, so I'd be cautious about overly simplifying its modes of action. The good thing is that, as one of the original nootropics, it's been around for quite a while and appears to be well tolerated. It seems to keep me naturally more aware and mindful, so I keep it in my regimen. YMMV.

I'd doubt you could get a prescription for piracetam, but yeah, some of those chinese suppliers have been slack about impurities. But there are retailers out there who do their own independent testing, relentless improvement is one I know of.

I'll put myself out there as an example of the merits of espresso and the occasional gin and tonic.

Most of the nootropics don't do anything for me any more. My personal theory is that these supplements were bringing me from a deficient state to an adequate state and now that my diet and sleep is pegged, I'm getting no more effect as I am already operating at a healthy level.

"Most of the nootropics don't do anything for me any more. My personal theory is that these supplements were bringing me from a deficient state to an adequate state and now that my diet and sleep is pegged, I'm getting no more effect as I am already operating at a healthy level."

My sample of one is that I already had diet, exercise, sleep, etc. dialed in, but found that a small amount of daily piracetam seemed to be doing something useful.

Also wanted to mention that I'm most of the way thru the Dan Siegel lectures, I thought I would mention his list of things that help with neuroplasticity. In no particular order:

* relationships
* omega 3 fatty acids
* sleep
* aerobic exercise
* paying close attention
* novelty

Dan has a structured approach to meditation where he more or less goes thru all of the sense doors and foundations of mindfulness in a certain order, plus metta (relationships) and then ends on a 2nd gear practice.