Obobinde's practice

Hello everyone,
I've been reading this forum for quite some time now and posting a little bit ; I've finally decided to start a journal to help me maintain a continuous practice and get the help and feedback of other practitioners.
I've been practising meditation on and off for nearly 10 years, i went to a couple of goenka and mahasi style retreats and i've just came out of a 15 days mahasi retreat.
It seems i'm a slow learner as i've never crossed A&P, probably because i've haven't been steady enough.
Anyway on the retreat i've managed to get to the point where i could start to feel the many sensations that constitutes the feeling of pain and the sensations of rising and falling. I've also had many experiences where the background noise of vibrations would become very quiet enabling me to note very well.

this morning practice :
50 min then 40 min
first session had low concentration, trying to follow closely the rising and falling without much success, lots of wandering thoughts, frustration and then enduring pains
second session much better concentration, felt very well the rising and falling, breath reaaly slowed down, pain coming in, anger, frustration, discouradgment, came back to the abdomen, ears ringing.

Good luck with your practice. i also yesterday came out of a Mahashi style retreat at Dhammacari in Germany. Where did you do yours? Good center?

Welcome (again), obobinde!

60 min,
watched mainly rising and falling, wandering thoughts, remenbering, shame, and then as always pain started so noted pain, anger, frustration, mental tension.

Thank you cmarti and JYET, well as i live in Paris there is no center around for mahasi style, so i usally go to the dhammaramsi center in belgium near brussels. Very nice center, traditional teaching the woman who owns it has been practising for 20 years and has done every year for 15 years 3 months retreat in burma. She is very humble and doesn't want to teach more than week ends intensive, so she always invites sayadaw for the longer retreats to keep the teaching as pure as possible. She is very open about the maps, no problem recognizing there lots of sotapanna and sakadagamin but anagamin and arahant seems to be very rare for her, she told me that when she was staying in burma there were only 4 arahats that tradition recognized...

That sounds like an amazing place obobinde. Even better than where I where. Nice to hear that she's open about the maps. We'll see what the future brings.

70 min
rising and falling, lots of wandering, frustation, ears ringing, quietness, when mind wanders frustation comes from not being able to note it right away, then the breath became very subtle, and some pain kicked in so start watching it. Mainly feels lack my concentration is not strong enough to penetrate objects.

80 min
watch as closely as i could the rising and falling, nothing much happening, tiny vibrations felt in the abdomen, it seemed i could sit for hours without discomfort, noted bored, joy, pride, desire for blissful sensations. I really think i need a lot more concentration to penetrate the objects or maybe i should stop staying on the abdomen as i only leave it when my breath almost stops and is nearly undetectable.

well i kept on doing one or two 60 min sitting everyday.
It's following more or less the same pattern, concentration building up until breath slows down and then i reach a more quiet state when my mind wanders less, and if it does i can catch it almost right away.

today 60 min morning and evening.
was tired because i went to bed very late, so concentration stayed, difficulties to notice the wandering mind, noted frustation and anger, rising, falling; still wondering if i should keep my attention mainly on the abdomen or if i should go freestyle.
I'll probably add 1 or 2 hours of practice everyday to really improve concentration.

Hello Obobinde,

Your accounts sound very similar to my experience in the years before taking teaching from Kenneth.

One thing that I discovered, once I had some guidance from Kenneth using his "ping-pong" out-loud noting, was that my capacity for concentration was much stronger than I had believed- my own self-evaluation was limiting me. That was a real breakthrough for me. Have you tried the noting style that Kenneth describes in his description of "First Gear"? It is similar to Mahasi, but a little bit "freer", I think. Most importantly, the instant feedback of noting out-loud does wonders.

I believe your concentration is already strong and pliable. Be kind to yourself- you are probably better off than you know! Soyez plus gentil envers vous-même !

By the way- you said that you recently finished a 15-day retreat. How long ago? Would you say there have been changes in your overall mood, or in daily life, after that retreat? Either permanent changes, or things that changed for a while and then went away?

Hi Mtl,
thanks for your input, well i've never tried neither ping pong out loud noting nor out loud noting alone. This morning sit i've stayed on the rising and falling but when the concentration was good enough and the breath almost stopped i've starded kenneth noting, noted softness of cloth, desire for subtle sensations, anticipating thoughs, imagining, frustration, doubt, and then i tried to note the quality of sensations, pressure/unpleasant, pain unpleasant, ears ringing pleasant, sitting neutral.
I will try out loud noting this evening.
I've finished the 15 days retreat 10 days ago, overall mood well not really maybe more willingness to practise persistently, and i can see emotions and sensations more easily in daily life.
Anyway thank you for reading and your advices

The value of "out-loud" noting is that you know instantly if you are really noting.

It is simple- if you are still talking, then your concentration is strong enough for vipassana, and you are doing vipassana. There is no longer any need to worry about how good your concentration is.

This noting also focuses your attention powerfully. As your confidence grows, you will start to know when "out-loud" noting feels too coarse for the speed of your attention. But at first, make a resolution to do it for a set amount of time- say, 10 minutes at first, then 20, etc., because at first, it is hard to know the difference between strong attention and a yearning to "space out".

70 min
started with out loud noting seems it is impossible for the mind to wander without being noticed right away, the main objects were sitting and touching, some thinking, jealousy, anger, doubt about techniques, joy. then when concentration was stronger i switched to internal noting, concentration was pretty good, easy noting i could really zoom in the rising and falling, noted peace, anticipating thoughts, desire to swallow, swallowing, pulsating, pride, joy, attachment to calm, numbness in leg, then breath nearly stopped concentration was stronger, hearing ringing sound, aversion to the numbness.

Rob thank you for the tip on the out loud noting, still one question, when i note i do it on each exhale, but shall i do it also on inhale?

You don't necessarily need to synchronize your noting with the breath. The important thing is to note things as you experience them. You don't have to keep to a schedule or rhythm, or find correct words, or feel pressure to note everything that happens - just report your experience as it is, the best that you can.

It's okay to not do this practice perfectly. The quality of your noting isn't the important part- the important thing is that, as you practice, your attention naturally becomes more and more fused to your real "now" experience. This happens by itself, like a muscle that builds itself up as you work with it.

Your report confirms to me that you already have a strong concentration "muscle" from your dedicated practice, and the technique is revealing that, and helping you avoid doubting yourself. Keep it up!

Thank you Rob this clarifies a lot of doubt,

60 min:
started with out loud noting, felt the concentration increase fast, after 15 min i went back to silent noting but then my mind started to wander a lot so i went back to out loud which seems to really focus the mind easily. and then i kept going back and forth between the two types. Anyway my mind was kind of tired this morning so i've noted lots of frustation and sloth.

I've been away with no easy access to web and difficulty to practice regularly. I managed to keep at least one hour a day though.
Last sit: 55min, silent noting starting with rising and falling, mind wanders but is quickly noted, mental background is getting quieter and quieter then i've tried to note mental states but found it difficult as it seems mainly neutral. Left practice with a happy feeling

morning sit 55 min :stayed on rising and falling then went freestyle noting, peace, anticipating, cold, then concentration increased, strong ringing in the ears, ended in an enticing peaceful state.
afternoon 25 min: well i don't know why but all my afternoon sits are being contaminated with strong sloth and torpor, and it's very discouraging, i'll try to start the sit with pure concentration to maintain awakeness.

this morning sit 55 min, i keep noting mainly the rising and falling as i feel it's helping me a lot to concentrate. After a while i was very concentrated on the abdomen and everything went quieter, noted quietness and desire for experience, anticipating, then numbness in one leg. In daily life i more and more look at the quality of experience and feel my mind is increasingly being infused with awareness.

morning sit 60 min, watched very closely the movement of the abdomen and started to feel only vibrations, concentration was easy so i kept pushing on the rising and falling movement. Eventually the breath really slowed down until it was imperceptible, entered a quiet state, then some numbness in the legs started to be felt and created some mental tension. Generally when my mind is very peaceful i don't have many objects to note, generally i end up noting camness and desire for object and then i go back on the abdomen.

60 min same as before,
by the end of the sit it's difficult to get object to note, so i note blurry, doubting, and a lot of frustration as i get the feeling it's going nowhere.

this morning was a tough sit as i went to bed very late, so my mind was very foggy and i only sat for 30 min. This afternoon i've started with noting out loud but as always with my afternoon sit i was sleepy. Finally i decided to lie down for 10 min or so, regained consciousness with a very clear mind and decided to enjoy 50 min of pure shamatha with breath awareness. Mind a little scattered at first but as my breathing became very very thin i became more and more concentrated. That was a nice side trip.

"it's difficult to get object to note, so i note blurry, doubting, and a lot of frustration"

Those are objects- you're doing the right thing.

With these kinds of feelings, you feel "I am" blurry, "I" doubt, "I" am frustrated, and "objects" are something outside of "I". But in fact, there is blurriness and it's an object, there is doubt and it's an object, there is frustration and it's an object (and there is a sense of "I", and it's an object, too!).

So keep noting doubt, blurry, frustrated, until they, too, resolve into objects and feelings that make them up.

For example, are you VERY frustrated, or A LITTLE BIT frustrated? Even just knowing that, you are objectifying that feeling even more, and it becomes more interesting to note, because you see that your sense frustration gets more and less and more and less intense, second after second.

Rob, thank you for your post, i didn't realize i could investigate this way into feelings; i'll definitely try that from now on.
Meanwhile this morning sit 60 min: started with 30 min shamatha until breath was quiet and body peaceful, then silent noting which seemed easier because of the concentration acquired with shamatha, anyway a peaceful practice.