Who is going to Buddhist Geeks conference 2012?

yes please!

OK, my pics are here: flic.kr/s/aHsjBtkbr7

If anyone pictured doesn't want to be, let me know.

"OK, my pics are here: flic.kr/s/aHsjBtkbr7

If anyone pictured doesn't want to be, let me know. "

Thanks, those are fun to see!

I went to Yadid's links for recordings and tried both downloading/playing and streaming. In both there were gaps or skips in the recording. I only tried session 4. Anyone else have that problem?

jack

I look too old in those pics. Nadav, can you please Phtoshop them

"I went to Yadid's links for recordings and tried both downloading/playing and streaming. In both there were gaps or skips in the recording. I only tried session 4. Anyone else have that problem?

jack"

I only listened to Dan Ingram's one (forgot which number), and it skipped a bit, but not much.

I had the same skipping problem, I had to keep starting and stopping the player. At one point the video dropped out. I was blaming it on my computer.

hey all,

I held a little workgroup at the conference on the topic of a "Dharma Student's Bill of Rights" and posted a brief list of five rights on my site here: alohadharma.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/a-d...ents-bill-of-rights/

Since then I've had some folks come forward with suggestions for how to improve it and other rights to add. I would be very curious as to whether anyone here has suggestions. So far we have:

A right to:
be free from sexual exploitation
be free from economic exploitation
know the teacher's qualifications
express disagreement
be free from verbal harassment

Suggestions to add so far are: a right to privacy, a right to a second opinion, and aspirational principles for a right to learn and openly share.

Other thoughts?

Good additions Ron. Right to Privacy is a no brainer. I guess, as a teacher, if you needed to get advice from another teacher on a student, you would need to use anonimity just like you would in any other type of therapy or medical treatment practice unless you got permission from the student to talk to another teacher about it. When I was first looking at your list I can't beleive I didn't think of this. Medical and psychological practices and governed by HIPAA laws etc but there is nothing protecting a student-teacher relationship in this practice. Normally not necessary if it was somethign simple like informal tutoring, but I am sure people talk about very personal things including health related issues just as they would a therapist, so privacy is a big one.

I'm not sure if the 2nd opinion one needs to be stated formally (I could be completely wrong here though). Of course, people have a right to change teachers or even have multiple teachers, but even posting on this forum is the same getting 2nd opinions, and students should have the right to post for opinions and help any time they need to. I don't think many people would go to a teacher who said that they can't post on forums or interact with any other dharma teachers. Part of this journey is sharing the experience.

Just blabbing. This is a very important topic though. I am glad you have brought it up!

Perhaps implicit but could be better if explicit: that such things work both ways? That is, a student has a right to know what the costs are (if any) and how payment is expected etc. The teacher has the right to expect the student will uphold any agreement on that subject and pay promptly.

Or, the student has a right to be free from sexual harassment or exploitation. The teacher likewise (and this can apply regardless of the genders of students/teachers).

Ditto expressing disagreement, or being free from verbal harassment, or the right to dismiss the student/end the relationship if it does not seem to be working well or there is a personality or goal mismatch. The right of the teacher to have honest reporting of practice from the student. And so on.

So it might be interesting to think of it less in terms of the student's bill of rights, and rather as the statement of respectful contract between two people who are agreeing to work together on a project.

Thoughts?

Students have, I think, historically need more "protecting" than teachers. It's just easier and more likely that a teacher will abuse the the "power" and authority inherent in the role we call "teacher" so I think Ron's initial formulation is still valid.

Thinking in print here, but there is something to be said for the "teacher's rights" here too, or at least defining what's expected of the student more clearly too. At certain points, a good teacher is called to give the student a push or an answer that seems unsatisfactory but is really what the students needs, right? I guess this is why this conversation is necessary... because the line between what I'm talking about and abuse can be blurry.

And Chris, there are some things even Photoshop can't help!

Yes, I presumed the idea came from that scenario. There may also be a different perspective when the teacher is female (myself, for example), as that brings with it a different "presumed power" than a male has in our society. I don't automatically feel as safe as a man might in many common day to day situations, for example.

I also think that in the context of dharma there is traditional top-down teaching, and then there is - to consider - working with someone to help guide them. A less hierarchical approach, which it seems pragmatic dharma is very much involved in (ie BG has Unconference elements, not just lectures by Important People, or the way we share on forums). So it might be relevant to consider that dynamic. So it's not about reacting against the worst case traditionalist abuse, but about providing something new that serves this 21st century open, pragmatic context.

Oh, by the way, have you read Bill Hamilton's Saints and Psychopaths, Ron?

"Thinking in print here, but there is something to be said for the "teacher's rights" here too, or at least defining what's expected of the student more clearly too. At certain points, a good teacher is called to give the student a push or an answer that seems unsatisfactory but is really what the students needs, right? I guess this is why this conversation is necessary... because the line between what I'm talking about and abuse can be blurry.

And Chris, there are some things even Photoshop can't help! "

Nadav, that's part of what I mean. A teacher may need to tell student things he/she doesn't want to hear, for example. There are natural times in teaching when a student may get angry with a teacher because they are stuck in a process and frustrated. These are normal parts of the relationship. A student may try to please the teacher by not being honest about what they are experiencing. The teacher can't help if the student doesn't do the work or engage with the process. A healthy relationship - even if teacher-student - is a cooperative effort. It can help a student understand what to expect from the process if the roles of teacher and student are part of the open discussion from the beginning.

Well, I was there at the group meeting (the unconference session) that birthed this notion and the stories told by the women there who were abused and mistreated by male teachers has been on my mind quite a bit since. I know teachers sometimes need to tell student things that are painful or hard to hear,and that may indeed require a different kind of relationship and may indeed need to be memorialized in some way, but the stuff I heard is light years beyond that and I think Ron is doing very worthy thing by creating a dharma student bill of rights.

JMHO, of course.

Thanks for providing that context, Chris. I think you're right.

Thanks so much for all the ideas and support. I'm eager to continue working on this idea, which I think is long overdue.

This discussion deserves its own thread.

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This discussion deserves its own thread.

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Good idea!