Self referencing thought meditation

I have been trying to do a binary mediation where I note if a phenomena is self referencing or not. I'm having difficulty making the distinction. Have you ever tried this meditation? How have you defined self referencing? If you note an itch and are not embedded in it, is it self referencing? That is, how do you make the distinction if nobody is home when you note.

jack

How do you define "self-referencing" Jack?

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How do you define "self-referencing" Jack?

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That is what I am wrestling with. I know Gary Weber as well as others uses the term. I think it has to do with egoic thinking.

jack

Jack, is this a koan?

I think this could be understood at a LOT of different levels.

Could be thoughts that we identify with (I am good at this, I am bad at this) -- basically versions of the 8 winds (pleasure and pain, praise and blame, fame and disrepute, gain and loss).

Could be any reactive flavor (aversion, attraction, indifference).

Could be any sense of existing beyond this moment.

Could be any sense of control.

Could be any sense of these sensations are mine or arise in me.

??? All of those seem self referential


My guess is for advanced practioners, they're mostly seeing how habits of attraction, aversion, and indifference still arise (however rare or subtle it maybe). Probably they are aware of the me/mine thing, too.

I did this practice a little. I simply used binary noting to note thoughts containing "I,me , mine" language. After I got used to this I noticed the physical sensations that corresponded with self-referencing thoughts.

Here is an old thread with discussion on phenomenology of selfing, hopefully it is useful to you, Jackha

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/47...Processes+of+Selfing

"I did this practice a little. I simply used binary noting to note thoughts containing "I,me , mine" language. After I got used to this I noticed the physical sensations that corresponded with self-referencing thoughts."

The direct path!

Here is another earlier reference from Bill's Thread

Some notes from Antero that may be useful for yogis interested in exploring the practices Kenneth associated with his 6th and 7th stage.


"a. Finding what is pulling me from being awake every moment
b. Noting that phenomena until I am seeing it clearly
c. Zooming in and feeling the phenomena as a continuous unsatisfactory bodily sensation
d. Grounding the sensations until it is automatically dropped
e. Repeating the formula

After 6th stage you could try the following:

1. Lock onto the Witness to really feel what it is like to exist in a constricted physical location.

2. Ask "Who am I"; and pay close attention how each time the attention contracts to a particular point behind the eyes. See how that contraction is an actual physical sensation that is inherently unpleasant. Once you get familiar with this feeling, it might even feel painful. This feeling of contraction is the reference point of the practice.

3. Start to investigate how the contraction happens every time there is a self referencing thought arising. You can do it by using binary noting Yes/No answering the question "Is there any self referencing going on?"; This will bring the self contraction into the focus and you will be able to see it every time it happens during the day."