Howards 2nd Path Review Thread

Hello again, looks like i got second path. I was only in high equanimity for about twelve hours, but I'm not complaining. Anyway I'm going start new thread for this, also I'm going to start it from the day before to give some context.

23rd Aug
12.30pm
Yesterday I ended up doing a very formal out loud noting practice that 'worked' quite well. This morning this felt much too intrusive, so I'm doing 3rd gear stuff like, 'you cannot turn off consciousness;' 'ships in the harbour.' I'm not trying to get into 3rd gear, that is coming and going but these appear to be the best practices that help me stay in the moment today. I'm much more interested in the transition from distraction to mindfulness at the moment. I cannot control when I become distracted it just happens, and I can't control when I come back either; but the little jolt of aversion I feel upon my return is very interesting. It also appears to be surprisingly damaging to the smoothness of my practice too, like a speed hump.

11pm
This afternoon has been much more solid; I felt really awful this morning and had to go back to bed. I was sleeping for maybe ten mins then I wake and have a solid period for about five then back to sleep again. This went on until maybe noonish when I finally got up. Again noting seemed really intrusive so I went to 3rd gear as I said above. As the afternoon went on I built some momentum and was becoming rather absorbed. And no more falling asleep thank god. I now know that this is a problem if you want to get path as insight is the key not absorption. Luckily Beth put me right on that and after we chatted at about eight, it felt like my noting muscle had finally woken up.

From that point on I was noting out loud at about 2-3 per second, often I was noting the same sensation in different ways; 'it's a cat, no it's a diamond tiara, oh I get it, it's a cat wearing a diamond tiara, cool' but faster obviously. This went on uninterrupted through eating, formal sitting, washing up and walking for about 3 hours. I one point I was out in the rain walking around the local mall at about 10pm, and I was walking very slowly because I wanted to catch the changing patterns of refracted light from the street lamps in the puddles. I also spent a long time looking at adverts in shop windows and observing my strong emotional responses to them. I went to bed around eleven, still noting, but this point I could not stop.

24th Aug
2am
I woke up at about two am with some decidedly odd thoughts in my head. I've had all kinds of odd dreams during the last couple of days so I was not unduly perturbed. Then my eyes shot up to the top of my head and a little pop and then a longish but not particularly strong bliss wave washed over me. I discounted the possibility of a path pretty quickly and rolled over to sleep. Then I had some more odd thoughts and then a rather odd dream sequence that played out like a particularly bad episode of Star Trek complete with cheesy, moralistic ending; me as the star, naturally. Then I had another pop and bliss wave. At this point I felt that I needed to investigate so I got up and sat for half an hour. To my surprise I had no desire to investigate sensations, and this was because there was nothing there to be investigated. Last night my mind was like a cross between New Orleans Mardi Gras and the Amazon rain forest; all kind of crazy sounds and colours but with big hairy spiders eating each other in the shadows; and all of it, very cool. This morning, nothing, just a big empty warehouse.

This is actually very relaxing the peace and quiet is nice and I am content. The downside is that my internal narrative voice has no competition and is a big booming presence now, rather like a Morgan Freeman voice over. But this is a small price to pay and I suspect goes with the turf.

11am
No change from last night. I did a 40min sit, I just started with the breath and included any sensations that were compelling. But still an empty but very quiet and peaceful warehouse, oh and Morgan Freeman of course.

11pm
I was too tired to practice, lying in bed I felt the familiar twitch of my eyes up towards the top of my head and the feeling of a fruition building. It's a bit like a sneeze but up the back of the neck, very odd.

25th Aug
I had another fruition right before bed again, that appears to be the preferred time and place. I'm sitting a fair bit during the day and like after stream entry I'm getting easy access to absorption states almost immediately. Again like after stream entry they tend to be short and sweet, after about 20mins concentration wanders; its best to do a little and often.

28th Aug
I've not posted for a couple of days, mainly because nothing much has happened. The fruitions have stopped, I'm not practicing much and when I do the mind refuses any attempt at formal practice, I just have to 'be' with whatever is there. The Jhana like sensations have also stopped. So at first glance 2nd path has had no impact on my life at all. But something subtle is going on and I'm not sure what to make of it; is it wishful thinking or is it 'real?'

After stream entry so much of what changed concerned my response to events or other people, I appeared to behave in a more 'frictionless' way. I would say and do appropriate things at the right time that appeared to have no fallout or baggage, this has stayed largely intact over the last couple of years. I've kept myself to myself over the weekend but I'm back to work today and first indications are that this 'frictionlessness' has sharpened-up somewhat I can't say any more than this at present and it may all be bollocks anyway, but I am observing with interest.

How sure are you that this was path? I have never seen someone so sure, so fast. It's usually: "I think I got path, lets see how this shakes out" I am not doubting at all, just curious how you are so sure. I may just be the doubtful type, because any time I got path, it seemed to take a while before I was sure.

I'm not very good at the whole dharma diagnosis thing, but what you describe waking up to, sounds a bit like review for me. Is it possible you had the actual path moment while sleeping? Was also wondering if the three fruitions could have been conformity, confirmation of lineage (or whatever change of lineage is called after stream entry) and path. I don't think so, but i really have no idea.

2nd September
Hello guys and thank you for commenting. Good questions all. I'm pretty sure I got path, mainly because I had such good support throughout the whole process. Kenneth suggested a couple of weeks ago that I was really ripe and just needed a good push over the line. It was then that it occurred to me that I had a week or so of holiday and nothing planned so I decided to do a home retreat on that basis.

I was chatting to Beth throughout the whole thing and she was adjusting my practice as it was necessary, my progress up the equanimity sub-nyanas was clear and conformed to what has been previously documented. Mid to High equanimity was particularly clear-cut. The path moment itself was very distinct and 'text book,' I investigated my mind state after the event and noted the dramatic shift in quality and tone I then e-mailed Beth immediately and gave her a detailed phenomenological description of the event, what went before and what came after. She discussed this with Kenneth and based upon their observation my practice over the last few weeks (indeed months) plus my descriptions they were reasonably sure that I got path. I have stayed in touch with Beth and recent developments only reinforce their diagnosis.

So this was not just an event seen in isolation but in a context, that context being a stable student/teacher relationship.

As regards the three fruitions in a row, I have no idea if that was change of lineage or anything, I was just relieved to get over the line.

Sounds awesome man. Good work! Let the fun begin.

2nd September
I've not posted for a few days as this thing has been fairly slow to develop. I noticed a strong aversion to practice for a few days so I stopped. However I also noted a gentle sense of ease behind all sensations, kind of in the gaps. This was pervasive and persistent. After chatting to Beth it became clear that formal practice ie 'doing' is no good at the moment. As soon as I started 'not doing' this sense of peace came to the fore. However now 'not doing' had been pointed out to me I cant 'not do' the thing, its all got very slippery. A bit like when someone says 'don't think about pink elephants' you immediately start thinking about pink elephants. Boo.

On a lighter note, I had about 20 plus fruitions last night. I woke up and felt the pop and the bliss wave, thought 'uh huh' and rolled over and started to drift off. Then it happened again and again and again. I got up had a glass of water went back to bed and it kept happening to the extent that it became rather annoying; until I chose to treat it like a free drugs experience; at which point it became much more fun. I felt very refreshed and full of energy today, better than I have felt for months in fact. Large it up.

4th Sept
I've had problems motivating myself to practice over the last week. Since path it has felt like I've been on holiday; I've not, in fact I went back to work just after 2nd path but it feels like I'm on holiday. Anyway, my practice instructions have been to 'not do' and I've had problems with this. I have been equating this with 'don't focus.' Stupid, stupid. I cannot stop my mind focusing on stuff anymore than I can stop perception. It's taken me a while to just let my mind focus, not focus, drift off, lose the plot ect. It's a bit like what happened when I got SE and realised that I have no control over my physical body or what it does. The same appears to be true for my mind. I thought that I already knew this, but it turns out that I did not. One important thing that had to happen was that I had to stop chasing the nice fluffy feeling behind everything; that took a while, it is awfully nice.

Was it actually possible to catch the nice fluffy feeling? If it's the same one i'm thinking of, it isn't really possible to catch it, though you can learn to tune into it and enjoy it while just letting it be there.

Congrats on 2nd Path Howard! You might enjoy these various pointers on "not doing" that I have found helpful:

www.shinzen.org/Retreat%20Reading/Return...o%20the%20Source.pdf
www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=writings_inner&writingid=12
Section J of Gary Weber's book: www.happiness-beyond-thought.com/thebook/thebook.html

"Was it actually possible to catch the nice fluffy feeling? If it's the same one i'm thinking of, it isn't really possible to catch it, though you can learn to tune into it and enjoy it while just letting it be there."

Hi Villum,
I suppose "nice fluffy feeling" is not very scientific or precise, but I cannot offer any more than that. It could come from anywhere, from absorption related to a Jhana, from some kind of 3rd gear awareness maybe. Without specific investigation I can't really offer any more than that. It still comes and goes not so strong as after path but still there sometimes. I had to make a decision about whether i was going to go after it or not. Beth and Kenneth have both strongly advised "not-doing" and I feel sufficiently insecure about this practice to not mess with this advice too much. Especially since "going after it" implies "doing."

That said "not doing" is settling down a bit. This morning i started to "do" this immediately on waking for the first time since path. I'm curious and want to explore. My first sit today was the clearest yet. I had a strong sense of perception doing its thing and the processes of self having a punch-up in the foreground. I am reminded of a spoof of WWF where one man is in the ring on his own fighting himself and the crowd love it. Bizarrely, he loses.

Although I do have some unfinished business with respect to what and how I practice. The issue of whether I need to study of Jhana has come back again. What normally happens is that I do it for a bit, but the need to do insight returns and it gets forgotten. It has been interesting but i never get to the stage where a critical mass of competence arises. I think I need some formal instruction.

Perhaps, you might approach the jhana partly as an object of insight, to avoid dropping it when the need to do insight comes up.

Good plan, the trouble is I've never attained to a stable Jhana. I've been in and out of all kinds of odd places, but not reliably. I think I need to do that first. Also I want to know what those "odd places" are.