Psychic Powers
- haquan
- Topic Author
16 years 1 month ago #53968
by haquan
Replied by haquan on topic RE: Psychic Powers
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All good points, Kenneth.
I'm going to comment on them right after I clarify one thing: I just noticed that we are lumping three separate things together in this conversation. 1. Psychic powers - probably emergent effects of physioenergetic integration as Kenneth might frame it, or if you prefer, psycho-physical integration. 2. Paranormal phenomenon (probably again emergent effects of complex self-organizing systems on a different scale). 3. Magick - "the art of gaining knowledge or manifesting intent through non-local means or methods." (Wetzel and Frater Alloy). This latter sometimes employs #1 above.
It should be noted that in cases 1 and 2 that the effects are often *side-effects*. I have been involved in quite a few magickal rituals where paranormal results occurred (dishes breaking in the cabinet, strange lights or noises, pyrotechnic effects, etc.) - never have I been involved in a ritual where these effects were created intentionally, not that we didn't try. Likewise, the powers seem to occur independently of intention - or possibly, again, as a side-effect of intention.
Kenneth wrote: "I like the way you put this, David. Reflecting further on my own attitude toward psychic powers, I would say that I view them in much the same way that I view rattlesnakes."
You're probably right Kenneth, my temperament is one that might tend to keep "rattlesnakes" as pets. (In fact, I have one I need to set loose you reminded me of.) And it is true that years of practice and study are needed for a master of the subject - but that's true of anything worthwhile - learning a foreign language, etc. Also, it may be the case that unintended consequences are actually more the rule than the exception. Nevertheless, to compare these phenomenon to rattlesnakes may be overstating the case a bit. Most of the time, the danger is quite a bit less than that. Continued...
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All good points, Kenneth.
I'm going to comment on them right after I clarify one thing: I just noticed that we are lumping three separate things together in this conversation. 1. Psychic powers - probably emergent effects of physioenergetic integration as Kenneth might frame it, or if you prefer, psycho-physical integration. 2. Paranormal phenomenon (probably again emergent effects of complex self-organizing systems on a different scale). 3. Magick - "the art of gaining knowledge or manifesting intent through non-local means or methods." (Wetzel and Frater Alloy). This latter sometimes employs #1 above.
It should be noted that in cases 1 and 2 that the effects are often *side-effects*. I have been involved in quite a few magickal rituals where paranormal results occurred (dishes breaking in the cabinet, strange lights or noises, pyrotechnic effects, etc.) - never have I been involved in a ritual where these effects were created intentionally, not that we didn't try. Likewise, the powers seem to occur independently of intention - or possibly, again, as a side-effect of intention.
Kenneth wrote: "I like the way you put this, David. Reflecting further on my own attitude toward psychic powers, I would say that I view them in much the same way that I view rattlesnakes."
You're probably right Kenneth, my temperament is one that might tend to keep "rattlesnakes" as pets. (In fact, I have one I need to set loose you reminded me of.) And it is true that years of practice and study are needed for a master of the subject - but that's true of anything worthwhile - learning a foreign language, etc. Also, it may be the case that unintended consequences are actually more the rule than the exception. Nevertheless, to compare these phenomenon to rattlesnakes may be overstating the case a bit. Most of the time, the danger is quite a bit less than that. Continued...
- haquan
- Topic Author
16 years 1 month ago #53969
by haquan
Replied by haquan on topic RE: Psychic Powers
Continued from post 25.
Most of the danger is actually self-created through one's own fears (of the unknown, or spooky stuff). (The unintended consequences are more often entertaining or amusing - but not always). For instance, a common apprehension of a danger of magick is that, say someone does a spell for money. The conventional wisdom is that the spell will "manifest along the path of least resistance." So some people might be afraid that if they do a spell for money, then their favorite aunt, who is also wealthy might die and leave them an inheritance. I know that would never happen to me, because implicit in my intent is that I wouldn't want to get the money through an unacceptable means like that. Those sorts of protections are built into my energy system. However, it could happen if I were intensely worried about that result, etc.
One interesting point here is the two reasons that most things mess up. 1. Lust of Result. If you are too attached to a certain outcome, it won't happen. Isn't that interesting? Very Buddhist actually. You have to able to let go of it to manifest it. 2. Ambivalence. This inevitably shows up in the manifested result assuming the operation works. This is the kind of thing that makes spells seem to manifest the letter of the intent, but not the spirit - where things seem to go awry. As my friend Julian Vayne says "True Magick comes from the Heart."
One thing also to keep in mind is that magic causes change - not just in the recipient, but also in the "initiator." It is naive to think that you will not be changed in some way by the use of magick. Curses are dangerous, and should be both carefully considered and formulated. As my mentor once said "If you are doing a lot of cursing, then something's wrong with YOU!". Continued...
Most of the danger is actually self-created through one's own fears (of the unknown, or spooky stuff). (The unintended consequences are more often entertaining or amusing - but not always). For instance, a common apprehension of a danger of magick is that, say someone does a spell for money. The conventional wisdom is that the spell will "manifest along the path of least resistance." So some people might be afraid that if they do a spell for money, then their favorite aunt, who is also wealthy might die and leave them an inheritance. I know that would never happen to me, because implicit in my intent is that I wouldn't want to get the money through an unacceptable means like that. Those sorts of protections are built into my energy system. However, it could happen if I were intensely worried about that result, etc.
One interesting point here is the two reasons that most things mess up. 1. Lust of Result. If you are too attached to a certain outcome, it won't happen. Isn't that interesting? Very Buddhist actually. You have to able to let go of it to manifest it. 2. Ambivalence. This inevitably shows up in the manifested result assuming the operation works. This is the kind of thing that makes spells seem to manifest the letter of the intent, but not the spirit - where things seem to go awry. As my friend Julian Vayne says "True Magick comes from the Heart."
One thing also to keep in mind is that magic causes change - not just in the recipient, but also in the "initiator." It is naive to think that you will not be changed in some way by the use of magick. Curses are dangerous, and should be both carefully considered and formulated. As my mentor once said "If you are doing a lot of cursing, then something's wrong with YOU!". Continued...
- haquan
- Topic Author
16 years 1 month ago #53970
by haquan
Replied by haquan on topic RE: Psychic Powers
Continued from #26
Also - love spells targeting a specific individual should not be done - they create a feedback loop that may intensify any existing infatuation you have with the target. (I've learned this through bitter experience).
Most of the time, things are pretty harmless. Why not do one if you are out of work and need a job?
Done with the right spirit, with the right view, Magick is karma yoga. It unifies the disciplines of moral action, concentration, and insight - The Great Work as we magicians like to view it, creating the philosopher's stone of one's life.
David
Also - love spells targeting a specific individual should not be done - they create a feedback loop that may intensify any existing infatuation you have with the target. (I've learned this through bitter experience).
Most of the time, things are pretty harmless. Why not do one if you are out of work and need a job?
Done with the right spirit, with the right view, Magick is karma yoga. It unifies the disciplines of moral action, concentration, and insight - The Great Work as we magicians like to view it, creating the philosopher's stone of one's life.
David