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Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
- tomotvos
- Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #54463
by tomotvos
Replied by tomotvos on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Thanks, Ryan. That video link is borked, however.
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #54464
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Rats! Yeah, I think the link was on some sort of timer or something like that. Too bad.
In other news, I rediscovered Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind yesterday, and wanted to give that book a shout-out here.
Practice was essential today at work. Very helpful for interrupting the flow of negative thinking and regaining a positive attitude.
Also, I heartily recommend re-reading the early chapters of MCTB! I've been getting a lot from them lately.
From "The Three Characteristics":
"This means that the instant you have experienced something, you know that it isn't there any more, and whatever is there is a new sensation that will be gone in an instant." Profound stuff!
In other news, I rediscovered Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind yesterday, and wanted to give that book a shout-out here.
Practice was essential today at work. Very helpful for interrupting the flow of negative thinking and regaining a positive attitude.
Also, I heartily recommend re-reading the early chapters of MCTB! I've been getting a lot from them lately.
From "The Three Characteristics":
"This means that the instant you have experienced something, you know that it isn't there any more, and whatever is there is a new sensation that will be gone in an instant." Profound stuff!
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #54465
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
A few interesting insights recently. I wonder if anyone has a similar experience and maybe a better understanding...
1) I was sweeping some stairs recently, and had been lost in thoughts of the future a lot, and a lot of worry was swirling around these thoughts. then very suddenly i had no worry whatsoever, and couldn't remember for the life of me what i had been worried about. for the next hour or so there was a big sense of a previously unacknowledged assumption that 'the world' held something that 'I' needed on a very deep level. Once this assumption was brought out into the open, once I was aware of it, it was not very convincing, because it didn't seem to be based on anything but misunderstanding, illusion. Another way to put this was that I'd always assumed on an extremely subtle level that there was something undefinable 'out there' that i needed, in order to be happy 'in here'. Suddenly, this was fading away, and in its place was a sense of ease and calm and availability (attention to 'the world' in service or mutually enjoyable play, rather than a terribly stressful and aggravated wanting and searching. Now, this hasn't been any sort of permanent mode for me in the past week or so, but the reverberations are still around.
2) Sitting at one point, sensations and thoughts were arising so rapidly and at some point a thought arose from amid this chaos that all these were actually happening at the same time, and that their 'arising and passing away' was itself part of the illusion.
3) During walking meditation the other day, there was a strong awareness of mental impressions following sensations, and at one point these took the form of specific people who arose in my mind accordingly right after certain sensory contact moments.
Continued below.
1) I was sweeping some stairs recently, and had been lost in thoughts of the future a lot, and a lot of worry was swirling around these thoughts. then very suddenly i had no worry whatsoever, and couldn't remember for the life of me what i had been worried about. for the next hour or so there was a big sense of a previously unacknowledged assumption that 'the world' held something that 'I' needed on a very deep level. Once this assumption was brought out into the open, once I was aware of it, it was not very convincing, because it didn't seem to be based on anything but misunderstanding, illusion. Another way to put this was that I'd always assumed on an extremely subtle level that there was something undefinable 'out there' that i needed, in order to be happy 'in here'. Suddenly, this was fading away, and in its place was a sense of ease and calm and availability (attention to 'the world' in service or mutually enjoyable play, rather than a terribly stressful and aggravated wanting and searching. Now, this hasn't been any sort of permanent mode for me in the past week or so, but the reverberations are still around.
2) Sitting at one point, sensations and thoughts were arising so rapidly and at some point a thought arose from amid this chaos that all these were actually happening at the same time, and that their 'arising and passing away' was itself part of the illusion.
3) During walking meditation the other day, there was a strong awareness of mental impressions following sensations, and at one point these took the form of specific people who arose in my mind accordingly right after certain sensory contact moments.
Continued below.
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 11 months ago #54466
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Then, after one of these, a strong feeling of shock arose (knowledge of fear?), and there was a visceral sense that what I call 'people' are nothing more than mental impressions, including, of course, myself. This doesn't imply at all that anyone (you, me and everyone we know) doesn't exist, but that these mental impressions are how we create a sense of them as 'people', collecting them together from a huge array of sensory contact moments. Does this make sense?
3) a fun experiment i've tried before is to make a very simple resolution / intention, and watch what happens as you carry it out. on the cushion this can be something like "i will now touch my left knee with my left hand." The thread Mikael started with the link about willpower brought this exercise back into my mind, and i tried it out with a very simple "now i'm going to pick up my hat and put it on my head." The trick, though, is to take this seemingly small thing very seriously, as though the success of you 'spiritual search' or whatever language fits best were riding on it. I can see potential problems with this approach if one is foolish (like, ok, i put on my hat and that means i'm enlightened), but the general idea is to not assume that completing this small task is meaningless and to watch what's happening as you're doing what you set out to do and finally done with it. In the case of this hat today, i noticed raptures arising at intervals as i picked up the hat, raised it to my head in my hands, and put it on my head, and then knew the sensations of 'hat on head.' So long as you have a balance between sincere interest in what you're willing to happen and common sense about what this can accomplish and what it can't, i consider it a fun and simple and worthwhile exercise. Thoughts?
3) a fun experiment i've tried before is to make a very simple resolution / intention, and watch what happens as you carry it out. on the cushion this can be something like "i will now touch my left knee with my left hand." The thread Mikael started with the link about willpower brought this exercise back into my mind, and i tried it out with a very simple "now i'm going to pick up my hat and put it on my head." The trick, though, is to take this seemingly small thing very seriously, as though the success of you 'spiritual search' or whatever language fits best were riding on it. I can see potential problems with this approach if one is foolish (like, ok, i put on my hat and that means i'm enlightened), but the general idea is to not assume that completing this small task is meaningless and to watch what's happening as you're doing what you set out to do and finally done with it. In the case of this hat today, i noticed raptures arising at intervals as i picked up the hat, raised it to my head in my hands, and put it on my head, and then knew the sensations of 'hat on head.' So long as you have a balance between sincere interest in what you're willing to happen and common sense about what this can accomplish and what it can't, i consider it a fun and simple and worthwhile exercise. Thoughts?
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #54467
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Hello, everyone.
A brief update on how my practice has been going as of late.
Some herky-jerky breathing lately, phasing into bliss, somewhat like the eyeball fluttering does. Really frustrating sit today where I got lost in "stuff" for a while. Then really focused in on the energy of feeling pissed off, and turned that towards concentration on whatever sensations were arising. Wasted most of my hour of sitting, but the last bit was fairly productive, for lack of a better word. Got up off the cushion feeling more energized and unburdened than I'd been earlier in the sit, with just enough of a sense of the stuff to be willing to deal with it, but not so much that I wanted to ignore it or become consumed by it.
Yesterday I had an interesting litte episode while sitting that seemed like a clarified version of access concentration, but I could be wrong about that. Basically, I was sitting, watching sensations arise, with a background sense of searching, and then I turned that searching back on the searching itself, and everything got clearer and more still. Things kept arising, but they were less stressful. It was as though they were exactly what I was looking for, but no one of them was more 'it' than any other -- so they just flowed on. A funny little image arose and played out for maybe five minutes of a dog chasing its tail and then sitting still and then chasing, then sitting, etc. Not only was the dog clearly able to stop chasing, but "I" was able to see that the dog chasing its tail and the dog sitting still were the same dog. Cool! Reminded me of an Ajahn Chah quote about seeing the mind as like still, flowing water.
Cheers,
Ryan
Edit: Word missing. (Some herky-jerky breathing lately, not just herky-jerky.) ; )
A brief update on how my practice has been going as of late.
Some herky-jerky breathing lately, phasing into bliss, somewhat like the eyeball fluttering does. Really frustrating sit today where I got lost in "stuff" for a while. Then really focused in on the energy of feeling pissed off, and turned that towards concentration on whatever sensations were arising. Wasted most of my hour of sitting, but the last bit was fairly productive, for lack of a better word. Got up off the cushion feeling more energized and unburdened than I'd been earlier in the sit, with just enough of a sense of the stuff to be willing to deal with it, but not so much that I wanted to ignore it or become consumed by it.
Yesterday I had an interesting litte episode while sitting that seemed like a clarified version of access concentration, but I could be wrong about that. Basically, I was sitting, watching sensations arise, with a background sense of searching, and then I turned that searching back on the searching itself, and everything got clearer and more still. Things kept arising, but they were less stressful. It was as though they were exactly what I was looking for, but no one of them was more 'it' than any other -- so they just flowed on. A funny little image arose and played out for maybe five minutes of a dog chasing its tail and then sitting still and then chasing, then sitting, etc. Not only was the dog clearly able to stop chasing, but "I" was able to see that the dog chasing its tail and the dog sitting still were the same dog. Cool! Reminded me of an Ajahn Chah quote about seeing the mind as like still, flowing water.
Cheers,
Ryan
Edit: Word missing. (Some herky-jerky breathing lately, not just herky-jerky.) ; )
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #54468
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Ok, so I went and sat for a while yesterday. It was a pretty decent session. At some point I became especially aware of the dukkha aspect of sensations -- whereas most often lately the impermanence aspect has been more predominant -- and some new A&P stuff began to happen. I was noticing breathing becoming very herky-jerky (cause and effect) and then mild rapture arising (three char) and then my body began shaking very violently (A&P), mostly my torso and arms sometimes flailing or even flapping like a bird, and also my head shaking back and forth hard. Jackson, I was REALLY glad to have heard your story about Jack Kornfield, the arm flapping was very similar. So I tried to remain equanimous with it, but it was hard to get used to...sometimes because it was dramatic and exciting to me or sometimes because it was disturbing and painful. But I just kept at it, and noted raptures or shaking and then noted the excitement (elation, like energy surging in my torso) or the pain or whatever and then it would subside and then I'd go back to the abdomen. Often there was some mild rapture or ease after it subsided, but usually this didn't last long. What was really helpful was that when I sat today this process (herky-jerky breath, mild rapture, violent shaking) repeated itself over and over again, so that I could begin to familiarize myself with it.
Continued below...
Continued below...
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #54469
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
At one point it became too painful so I tried meditating in a reclining position, to give myself a rest. What happened then was similar, only when the shaking began it was forcefully in my legs at first, like a worm wriggling or a fish flopping, and sometimes moved from my legs to my torso, as well. Not as painful as the sitting, but reclining it was harder to stay focused and I went from the shaking into getting lost in thought for about five minutes until my alarm went off. I know I just need to stick to my guns and then this will pass, so I'm doing my best to not make much of it. I'd like to continue sitting, if I can, because I feel like I'm achieving better concentration that way than walking or standing or reclining. But the shaking has been really violent, and my jaw and shoulders got pretty beat up, in particular. Any advice about how to deal with that?
Continued below.
Continued below.
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #54470
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
I phased into some Dark NIght territory, as well, misery and desire for deliverance. Maybe into Equanimity, but I don't think so. Some time later when I sat last night, I found I was able to note very rapidly, becoming aware of LOTS of sensations within experiences like "pain in my legs,' or watching the patterned movement goose-flesh raptures (tending from crown and face to torso out arms and legs). But despite the intensity of the sensations (meaning they're more obvious) I'm not feeling very happy about how things are going, actually. It feels like I didn't get some message earlier and now the same thing that was going on with the eyeball fluttering and mild torso bending and rotating is now amping up the volume - whether or not I'm actually equipped to deal with this steroid version. I'm also a feeling worried about getting into Dark Night territory and having that mess with my daily life. I'm signed up for a Bhavana Society retreat in a month, and I wonder whether I ought to chill out and wait to face this stuff on retreat. Any thoughts?
Metta,
Ryan
Metta,
Ryan
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #54471
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Reading Dave A's practice journal today, I was reminded about this other thing that's arisen fairly often lately while sitting:
Dave mentioned this as 'grimacing,' which was what sounded familiar. For me its like there's something pinching or squeezing the area behind my eyes, causing my brow to furrow and eyes to shut tight and cheeks to clench along with them. Often my head turns with it slightly to the side with it. Usually, this whole thing doesn't last long. No more than a few seconds, but it often re-appears four or five times in a given wave. Sometimes it feels like there's an opening that's getting smaller and smaller until it vanishes, and sometimes it feels like a rubbery surface being pulled together into a tight little ball and then released. There's always that basic movement though, considerable tension and then considerable ease when it subsides. It's kind of uncomfortable sometimes, but not painful or distressing. In fact, even the tightening is usually pleasurable - like how the exertion of lifting weights or doing hard manual labor feels good. It's also a lot like yawning.
Dave mentioned this as 'grimacing,' which was what sounded familiar. For me its like there's something pinching or squeezing the area behind my eyes, causing my brow to furrow and eyes to shut tight and cheeks to clench along with them. Often my head turns with it slightly to the side with it. Usually, this whole thing doesn't last long. No more than a few seconds, but it often re-appears four or five times in a given wave. Sometimes it feels like there's an opening that's getting smaller and smaller until it vanishes, and sometimes it feels like a rubbery surface being pulled together into a tight little ball and then released. There's always that basic movement though, considerable tension and then considerable ease when it subsides. It's kind of uncomfortable sometimes, but not painful or distressing. In fact, even the tightening is usually pleasurable - like how the exertion of lifting weights or doing hard manual labor feels good. It's also a lot like yawning.
- Dadriance
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #54472
by Dadriance
Replied by Dadriance on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Interestingly, I find myself yawning frequently during the latter stages of my sittings the last few days, but it doesn't feel like I'm yawning for the usual reasons, i.e. fatigue, boredom, hunger. It feels more like a spontaneous release of energy and sucking in of oxygen as part of the ongoing energy movements in the body. And, as you note, it is pleasurable... if I'm paying attention I can note tingling rapturous sensations on certain parts of the body immediately following the yawning.
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #54473
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
After a great phone conversation with Kenneth Monday evening, I've been noticing an ability to really just watch myself doing things, and allowing reality to just do its thing, so to speak. This is really nothing too fancy, perhaps because I have such a limited ability to do this in a more high-powered way, but the main deal is very simply taking a perspective (often a mental image arises) outside of the body. Say, for example, I'm sitting in a chair typing, as I am now. Well, in addition to being aware of the body, I can also take a momentary break from that and 'see' or 'watch' this thing that's typing. Or rather, this thing that's happening, which happens to include somebody sitting in a chair typing. Also, I notice that after even brief momentary breaks in the strict 'body-absorbed' perspective, the sensations of that body have a different quality than they did before. Lightness is the best descriptive word that comes to mind. I'm sure that with practice in various realms of experience (what Kenneth calls gears), this I could enhance this skill, but as for now I'm enjoying the benefits of my limited ability to do that. It's surprising how I can DO things, while watching myself do things, because rationally it seems as though that shouldn't be possible, but it really is. In fact, it's easier to do things, in some respects, with the ability to step 'off the ride' for a little while. I use that phrase with some trepidation, because it's associated with higher realms of attainment that I can claim, but it's a useful phrase, because that is what it feels like to, for instance, take the vantage point of the couch across from me, rather than merely being caught up in what's happening with this body. And people seem to do this instinctively in certain situations, like moments of extreme pain or fright. They just can't access it at will. More later. - R
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 10 months ago #54474
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Oh, and one more thing. The shaking stuff happened again today, while sitting, but instead of being scary or thrilling, it was energizing. It felt like an engine starting, like a motor being turned on. Cool! And it also continued more smoothly, and ended more smoothly. It didn't happen as often, either. But I was also sitting for less time than before. I'm finding that, as usual, confidence is key. Keep it up, folks, this stuff works!
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 9 months ago #54475
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Hello, it's been a little while since I've posted here. I've been focused on work life pretty intensely lately, so practice has slacked lately. But the practice can really be wherever I am, of course, and these skills are useful anywhere, so it's not like things are totally off track. I leave for a ten-day "Vipassana and Yoga" retreat at Bhavana Society on the 18th, so I anticipate reporting on that here, after I get back home on the 28th or so. Really glad I checked in with Chris's "Stages" thread today. His comment about "meta-practice" (how we approach our practice) was good for me to hear, especially with this retreat coming up. Thanks, Chris!
Not too much of note in sitting practice lately. But my conventional life has involved some humbling relationship experiences -- reminders about what happens when we get off track and indulge the 'self-absorbed mind-noise,' to borrow D. Ingram's phrase.
Part of that is the usefulness of being challenged to confront my assumptions about how life "ought to be" or how practice "ought to be." Which is to say, oftentimes I get off track and lost in my crap because I'm stubbornly refusing to move on my own, resisting change. I've been feeling very sorry lately for my inability at key moments to either a) put in the effort to change, or b) surrender to what is.
As others have noted before, I'm learning in daily life how important it is to appreciate the difference between equanimity and indifference. I've seen recently how failing to discern which is which leads to real trouble.
The basic message is, don't get caught sleeping! And don't get caught struggling needlessly, either. Not only that, but one leads to the other. It's a double-loss situation, for now and the future.
And, conversely, wake up and chill out! : ) - Ryan
Not too much of note in sitting practice lately. But my conventional life has involved some humbling relationship experiences -- reminders about what happens when we get off track and indulge the 'self-absorbed mind-noise,' to borrow D. Ingram's phrase.
Part of that is the usefulness of being challenged to confront my assumptions about how life "ought to be" or how practice "ought to be." Which is to say, oftentimes I get off track and lost in my crap because I'm stubbornly refusing to move on my own, resisting change. I've been feeling very sorry lately for my inability at key moments to either a) put in the effort to change, or b) surrender to what is.
As others have noted before, I'm learning in daily life how important it is to appreciate the difference between equanimity and indifference. I've seen recently how failing to discern which is which leads to real trouble.
The basic message is, don't get caught sleeping! And don't get caught struggling needlessly, either. Not only that, but one leads to the other. It's a double-loss situation, for now and the future.
And, conversely, wake up and chill out! : ) - Ryan
- Ryguy913
- Topic Author
15 years 9 months ago #54476
by Ryguy913
Replied by Ryguy913 on topic RE: Concentration, Ease, Rapture, Intention, Eye-Balls Fluttering
Hello,
So, I'm back from the ten-day vipassana and yoga retreat at Bhavana Society, with plenty of reporting to catch up on, as you can imagine.
I'm thinking, though, that I'm going to start a new practice thread, part 2 let's say, and let this one be part 1.
I'll link to this thread on the new one, in case people want to refer back.
Until I have a full report up, I wanted to share with you all a new essay by Thanissaro Bhikkhu...An excellent read, in my opinion.
It captures a lot of what I experienced on retreat -- successes, failures, problems, solutions, obstacles, breakthroughs, etc.
www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/joyeffort.html
With gratitude for this community, as well as the wider community we're a part of....all the little-d dharmas and big-D Dharmas,
Ryan
Edited for layout read-ability.
So, I'm back from the ten-day vipassana and yoga retreat at Bhavana Society, with plenty of reporting to catch up on, as you can imagine.
I'm thinking, though, that I'm going to start a new practice thread, part 2 let's say, and let this one be part 1.
I'll link to this thread on the new one, in case people want to refer back.
Until I have a full report up, I wanted to share with you all a new essay by Thanissaro Bhikkhu...An excellent read, in my opinion.
It captures a lot of what I experienced on retreat -- successes, failures, problems, solutions, obstacles, breakthroughs, etc.
www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/joyeffort.html
With gratitude for this community, as well as the wider community we're a part of....all the little-d dharmas and big-D Dharmas,
Ryan
Edited for layout read-ability.
