Chris Papadopoulos Practice Notes

Noting meditations began Friday 5/21/10.

5/21/10: This was the first sitting with noting. Maybe it was the very positive attitude from my conversation with Kenneth the day before, but it went well. Each of the notings were prefaced with "see how it _____". Some time into the meditation, there was a familiar quieting down of mind accompanied by a "darkening" of the eyes-closed perceptual field with intermittent bright spots. All noted But there is this time lag between the occurrence and the noting. 45 minutes went pretty well, no boredom or fatigue to note. Did look at the time about 35 minutes into it. Concluded with a positive mood and wanting to continue the practice.

5/24/10: There was a two day gap in which sitting with noting didn't happen, though intermittent noting "sessions" of very short duration happened. There is still an aversion to sitting meditations. Hmm. This day's sitting was only a half hour. Experimented with frequencies of noting (i.e., with each heartbeat, 1 to 2 second pause, etc.) Not sure what works best yet. Began to note only with "rising", "falling", "tension", "curiosity", "itch", etc. without the preface of "see how it ____". Concluded with the feeling that it didn't go as well as I would have liked.

5/25/10: Very averse to sitting meditation. Late morning/noontime sitting right after coming home from my part-time work. Half-hour. This time using the cell phone's alarm to track. Still, fatigued and wanted to stop after 30 minutes. Notings remained superficial (i.e., not accompanied by deepening or slowing down of mental movement).

5/26/10: Was much more motivated to sit. Cell phone timer. Mid afternoon. I realize that the preface "see how it ____" allows for a quicker dis-embedding, while, on the other hand, using one-word notings allows for faster "call-outs". I value both so it's difficult to choose. Stuck with one-word notings for today.

Tried to feel myself in the body as I sat. I earlier read some Ken Wilber writing about centaur meditation, which inspired the intention. Which was noted!
Brief deepenings, moments of closed eyes fluttering as in REM sleep. This seemed to coincide with the intention of shifting into the witness as I noted. Which was not noted at the time....

Seems like there was one voice tracking "rising" and "falling" while another voice, seemingly superimposed on the first, noted "hearing", "anticipating", "imagination", "wandering", etc. I simply noted that too. Interrupted by phone ringing. Which of course is the minus of having the cell phone as my timer.

The mind gets tired of playing the noting game, and the main evidence of this is an onslaught of monologues and imagery. It just so happened that 45 minutes were up as the mental streams started getting faster and more intense than my ability to catch them and note them. Concluded with a positive feeling about the meditation.

5/28/10: Some aversion to sitting. Once sitting, though, it was easy to settle in. I had gone through MCTB just before sitting. It kind of flavored the session, because of Ingram's notes about the Training in Morality. If one is struggling with guilt, judgment, and the like during meditation, then developing kindness is the key to more productive and open sittings. Anyway, I also read that a good pace for noting is one call-out per second. There was a clock ticking and so I just followed that pace (while alert to my attention getting caught up by the rhythmic ticking). Most noting was "rising" and "falling". I noticed (and noted) constriction in the diaphragm as I breathed. Noted thoughts and emotions associated with life situations. Guilt and dilemma were noted as individual thoughts rather than thought-streams, which was good. Concluded meditation at 30 or so minutes. This meditation has been the same in quality as most meditations these past few years. Dry, just showing up, little deepening. But I have frittered away much time due to disappointment in the lack of progress, so I just have to press on.
I am a bit unclear about the nature of the noting. Should it be confined to verbal or mental-verbal? Or is simply noticing enough?

Sounds like you're doing great, Chris!
I'll let more experienced noters chime in about noticing v. noting.
Please keep up the posts!
Best regards,
Joel

Thanks Joel for the encouraging words!!!!

"This meditation has been the same in quality as most meditations these past few years. Dry, just showing up, little deepening. But I have frittered away much time due to disappointment in the lack of progress, so I just have to press on.
"

Chris, your commitment to practice even during long dry spells is inspiring. I'm not a stranger to dry years either although finding DhO, then the incomparable KFD site and opportunity to work with Kenneth have been a great kick in the butt for my practice. A long-time Zen teacher I know believes that people who have had some kind of mystical experience tend to be the ones who stick with it for the long run because they know from experience what's possible. Can you relate to that? Anyway, best of luck and I'm glad you're working with Kenneth!

Hey Chris,

Just read through your journal. You are doing good work. Don't worry too much about if your sitting are going well or poorly. Just keep plugging away. Noting in the orthodox mahasi style has not been my main practice. But recently on my last retreat I did it solid for 4 days strait. Wow it is freaking powerful stuff. Dis-embed. But make sure you understand what you are dis-embeding from. I found *for me* what was more important than noting quickly was thoroughly seeing the 3 characteristics in everything I noted and then naturally dis-embedding... Best wishes for your future practice...

"But make sure you understand what you are dis-embeding from. I found *for me* what was more important than noting quickly was thoroughly seeing the 3 characteristics in everything I noted and then naturally dis-embedding..."

Hi Clayton, would be very interested to hear you describe that in some more detail. ~mp

Sure. First off, its just something I do. It is inspired by the writing of Ingram. He talks about the need to see the 3 characteristics in everything that is arising. So for instance if I have pain in a chakra I note it. My mind state in relation to it--aversion. Then I look for impermanence within the sensation or mind state. I scan the sensation feeling the flux of vibration. Then I look for the no-self characteristic. I will do this for mental states or physical sensations. So for instance feeling lust, noted. Then contemplate, is this mental state me? Realizing the universal nature of all mind states and the impersonal nature of all physical sensations. Then turn the attention towards unsatisfactoriness. Even if I feel waves of bliss recognize that it too is impermanent and not self, ergo unsatisfactory. Or if I am feeling a negative mental state when contemplating dukka observe how the tension arises not from the mental state but from the delusion that this is me and this is permanent. After clearly perceiving the 3 Cs within a sensation or mental state you naturally are dis-embedded from the phenomenon. Then you move on to the next one. I find *again for me* if I jump around before penetrating the object it is less effective. So when other stuff comes up during a investigation I might note it if it is really glaring but usually I just try to stick to what I am doing. There will always be another sensation or mental state to tear apart. For me its quality of observation not quantity...

Does this clarify? I am continuing to refine my practice--I guess we all are--but I hope this gives some clarity to what I was saying...

"Sure. First off, its just something I do. It is inspired by the writing of Ingram. He talks about the need to see the 3 characteristics in everything that is arising. So for instance if I have pain in a chakra I note it. My mind state in relation to it--aversion. Then I look for impermanence within the sensation or mind state. I scan the sensation feeling the flux of vibration. Then I look for the no-self characteristic. I will do this for mental states or physical sensations. So for instance feeling lust, noted. Then contemplate, is this mental state me? Realizing the universal nature of all mind states and the impersonal nature of all physical sensations. Then turn the attention towards unsatisfactoriness. Even if I feel waves of bliss recognize that it too is impermanent and not self, ergo unsatisfactory. Or if I am feeling a negative mental state when contemplating dukka observe how the tension arises not from the mental state but from the delusion that this is me and this is permanent. After clearly perceiving the 3 Cs within a sensation or mental state you naturally are dis-embedded from the phenomenon. Then you move on to the next one. I find *again for me* if I jump around before penetrating the object it is less effective. So when other stuff comes up during a investigation I might note it if it is really glaring but usually I just try to stick to what I am doing. There will always be another sensation or mental state to tear apart. For me its quality of observation not quantity...

Does this clarify? I am continuing to refine my practice--I guess we all are--but I hope this gives some clarity to what I was saying... "

Are you seeing these characteristics by kind of an analysis while looking, or are you SEEING the characteristic?
Does the distinction make sense? It sounds like ou are having a sensation and then kind of reviewing the sensation by reminding yourself of it's characteristics. this sounds much simpler that what i've tried.

Seems like first there is the remembrance "Oh yeah look at that!" which I guess corresponds to the mental-verbal part, then the next frame is actually seeing the characteristic (for what it is). The same sequence seems to work regardless of whether the practitioner remembers the 3 characteristics or seeing that what was taken to be "I" is in fact "not I" (or vice versa )

Well the last few days, the life stuff really got to me and I didn't do any sitting. Ended up reading Pema Chodron and Vernon Howard. Like a frantic grasping for something.
I do think >seeing< the nature of the I thought as it is definitely has helped in terms of settling into meditation and staying there. But I do now wholeheartedly understand that seeing is not the end. Something to do with avoiding acceptance and secretly still infatuated with dilemmas....
But, yeah, I really appreciate the encouragement. Thanks!!!!

Intuition hints that accepting the impermanence of Me-I-Myself as yet another arising sequence of phenomena would constitute some kind of completion as far as impermanence goes. I guess we need to hang in there and see-accept impermanence to begin with. What do I know though.

I appreciate it Clayton! Noting is new to me too, but it complements my practice of keeping the I-sense in the foreground. In fact, when I have briefly switched to that in the middle of noting (while prefaced with "see how it ____"), the disembedding was quick and lasting.

As is evident. I am learning the difference between "Quote & reply" and "Post reply". Jesus.

"[Ingram] talks about the need to see the 3 characteristics in everything that is arising.-Clayton"

The reflection that Clayton is talking about is helpful for some people (notice how careful Clayton was to say that this is helpful *for him*). But that kind of reflection is NOT essential to the work we do. You don't have to be consciously aware of the 3 Characteristics. The fact that things are not satisfactory, not permanent, and not-self is seen directly, at a much deeper level than the level of conscious thought, even if you have never heard about the Buddhist theory of the 3 Characteristics.

How do I know this? Because people from all different cultures and traditions have been getting enlightened since the dawn of man. Shamans, Druids, Jews, Christians, Muslims, people outside of traditions, whatever... anyone can get enlightened if they systematically objectify whatever arises in their experience. The fact that 3 Characteristics theory is unique to Buddhism proves that it is non-essential. Any essential element will be common to all awakened people. That means there is NO single theory or thought that is essential to awakening. The only essential thing is the practice.

Do whatever is helpful to you in your own practice, but please be clear about what is essential and what is non-essential. Clayton was right when he advised to "make sure you understand what you are dis-embedding from." This requirement is 100% satisfied by the noting practice. You don't have to sit around reflecting upon the 3 Characteristics (unless you find it helpful, in which case, why not?)

When you see things clearly, as they are, in this moment, you WILL see that things are unsatisfactory, impermanent, and not-self, even if you never think of it in those terms. Knowledge of the 3 C's is just one of the 16 Insight Knowledges essential to the Progress of Insight. You need 'em all. No need to fixate on one. Keep movin'.

Kenneth's reply is right on the money as usual. Best wishes in your continued practice. Mike its really hard for me to see the distinction. Perhaps you could clarify, This particular thing I am describing is something I played around with on my last retreat. It helped me get over a nasty but ultimately short lived DN. As I continued to progress I found just noting a sensation of a thought was enough and the 3 Cs just kind of were there intuitivly. I was operating on more of a fake it till you make it (I need some training wheels) mentality--which proved to be very helpful *for me haha*

Chris--best of luck every Yogi on this board has been where you have been in terms of practice... Sometimes its hard to motivate yourself to sit, especially when things are difficult. Have you recently had a big opening? Any guess as to where you might be along the progress of insight. Either way Kenneth sums the entire practice rather well with the simple phrase, "consistency, not heroics" if you keep plugging away you can't help but progress...

6/2/10: After some review and feedback from Kenneth, noting and sitting have been a little less daunting. The 45 minutes didn't go by slow or fast. Except at the end, where there were impressions of fatigue and related thoughts and emotions and perception of time passing were labelled as "unpleasant". Taking the Bystander approach (see how it ____) and decided I was going to stick to it the whole way. Not a problem, in fact the exercise was engaging and kept the mind from past and future pretty well.
About some time in, familiar old symptoms: feeling-hearing avalanches in my ears, chills up my back, knocked back for a second. Then a nice blissful feeling. I won't lie, it was nice. Nicer that I am "giving myself permission" to not repress it or judge it or whatever. But I remembered Kenneth's admonition to note even this and not forget that this is another kind of embedding as the experiencer experiencing.
After that subsided, the noting went even better since I noted the symptoms, the mini-exultant feelings, the judgement thoughts (+ and -). Then it seemed like the filters kind of wore down and a lot of noting was happening, on all 4 levels. Two brief interruptions but overall didn't break momentum. Concluded feeling VERY positive. I recorded a crapload -- from the bliss to the absolute "I want this to be over" and everything in between.
Some thoughts for future work: getting a notebook to write down new noting terms as they arise. Seems like a good idea to expand the noting vocabulary this way.

Excellent, Chris! This is the kind of balanced effort that pays infinite dividends.

Keep on truckin'

Kenneth

6/6/10: The noting is getting better, as fleeting emotional and physical arisings are being noticed. Familiar meditation side effect stuff too. The subtle high-pitch sound in the left side of my head. Tried focusing on that during the noting so as to induce overload. What was interesting was the noting of the sound, the thinking about the sound, and the verbal planning to induce overload. All noted. The avalanche between the ears in other time frames (but today not getting the kind of "momentum" that usually leads to physical mini-bliss states). Noted.
But there was this dreariness to it , too, since no thought, association, sensation, emotion, impression was allowed to escape the noting or the noticing. I see that allowing any one of these as "more intimate" or commentary on the rest of the stuff that's being noted allows me to hide. But there is, sadly, nothing that is so important that it lingers more than a few time frames. Maybe moods last a bit longer. I say sadly because "see how it feels sad", "see how it judges this", "see how it has a sadness thought". Ad infinitum. Or ad nauseam.
It's supposed to be liberating (as in relief), but right now it feels like being slowly flayed alive. And what with all the life narrative crap that I have less ability or inclination to run from or gloss over. Strangely enough, I see that the practice is starting to "kick in". It's been a bitter cup to drink from for the past 8 years. Which is why I have dreaded meditation. I, I, I. But I digress. haha
More good news is that the sitting went for 45 minutes with no interruptions. The "I want this to be over" thoughts and feelings were noted as they emerged. Then they subsided like everything else.
As resolute as ever to continue the practice. Concluded on a neutral-positive note.

I've been entering practice notes into a notebook for some time now, so I'll go ahead and put cumulative posts.

To 6/10/10: I've been able to keep still for longer, and that is a confirmation that continued consistent practice will lead to little mileposts like that. The time between perception of arising phenomena and the noting has been decreasing, too.
When the verbal mind is under a lot of scrutiny, thought streams seem to shift from mostly verbal to mostly visual. And from lower-velocity and crude (in terms of "footprint") to higher-velocity and subtle. Meditations have averaged 30-40 minutes, with a number of 45 minute sittings.

Due to fixation on life events associated with instability, I've wallowed here and there in moments of feeling like there's really nothing out there to take refuge in. The pity party has traditionally led to on-off meditation practice. This time around, there's also the feeling that impermanence SUCKS. Sucks for ME. Insight meditation is my way out by investigating thoughts, associations, emotions and the like as they arise. To receive the demons. Maybe material for another thread. Anyway, I'm feeling grateful for the practice, for the teacher, and for the community.

6/15/10: 2 sittings.
Sitting 1 (~20 minutes, early morning)
Mood: Sad, tension, not fully rested.
Weird sensations. Thoughts were "tinny", "thinner". At the same time, body felt large, bloated, like the Michelin Man, especially in the arms and hands.
Emotional material predominating. Concluded meditation feeling like there wasn't "traction" in the sitting. Noting "rising" and "falling" can be a trap because its repetitive nature can be hypnotically lulling.
Sitting 2: Early afternoon. ~20 minutes.
Noting at 4 levels: rising-falling/bodily sensation, emotional, mental state, thought-forms
It didn't matter that I wasn't prefacing labels with "see how it ____". It was a relief that I could sit with VERY uncomfortable emotional and mental states. And this is without reflecting on "and just WHO is feeling uncomfortable". Noting doesn't "alleviate" reactions to arising phenomena. Rather a kind of dispassionate steeling effect. But definitely getting into the groove of approaching the practice with an investigative attitude/perspective.
Later in the sit, I went into witnessing conscious awareness to deepen concentration. It seemed for a split second that "The Question" was right there again, front and center, but concentration faltered and the temptation to look away was again too great. So attention was diverted. Moral of this fable: The value of developing concentration!!!
Noting is also going on throughout the day. Chris, meet Noting. Noting, meet Chris. Nice to get to know ya!