Chris Papadopoulos Practice Notes

6/16/10: Sitting 1: Late morning, 30 minutes. Mood: A bit tired, a bit depressed. Nothing overwhelming to the mind.
Going to sleep noting does indeed seem to be a cause for noting upon, or very soon after, waking up in the morning. Which of course is A Good Thingâ„¢.
Insights:
1) Saw clearly the progression from thought-form to emotion to bodily impression. Faster and subtler to slower and cruder.
2) The CRUCIAL importance of noting in real time. If I'm momentarily obsessed by a thought-stream, then remember the practice (which is going down in the space of a few seconds), then it's better to note "recollection thought" than to label a thought already gone by. This seems important for investigating and dis-embedding. Otherwise, it's just a lot of imagination instead of practice. But, damn man, it really is taxing to keep the focus. But I recall a study where meditating monks were perceiving each ticking of a clock in the room as a NOVEL ARISING. I think that's a really great very short-term goal. Each rising and falling of the abdomen as a completely novel arising. The first key to the end of craving and seeking and suffering. Stream-entry seems a bit more far-off than that...
Building up of concentration doesn't seem to help if there is emotional material ripening and bubbling to the surface. However, intuition tells me that, the more I stick with this, the "further backwards" goes the dividing line between conscious and subconscious.
I plan to do another sitting tonight after work.

Nice! I see a lot of progress in a short time, Chris. Again and again, I find myself pleasantly surprised to see just how effective these practices are for real people in the 21st Century.

Thanks to all the yogis and sages who have pioneered these techniques and shared their experiences throughout the centuries. And thanks to our little sangha for working so hard and for chronicling these experiences for the yogis who come after us.

A deep bow and a big hug to all of you,

Kenneth

6/17/10: late AM, 40 mins.
Meditated in the bathroom! Ah, the memories....Nice and dark, with little sound.
Noting was steady at all 4 levels, though there were still some moments where attention followed thought-streams. Sometimes the mind-attention had to be effortfully held to rising-falling and returned to the present moment.
I still feel like I'm not disengaging/dis-embedding from the experiencer-experience. Like the meditation is part of the dream, part of the spinning of the wheels. But I guess this is part of the process of removing doubt that spiritual practice is my last hope for refuge and freedom.
So after some time, I dropped into watching conscious awareness and its contents. Good, steady but not a very deep samadhi.
At about 40 minutes the urge to stop and mental fatigue were overwhelming. Ended on positive note. The only bad meditation is one that isn't done.

"6/17/10: late AM, 40 mins.
Meditated in the bathroom! Ah, the memories....Nice and dark, with little sound.
Noting was steady at all 4 levels, though there were still some moments where attention followed thought-streams. Sometimes the mind-attention had to be effortfully held to rising-falling and returned to the present moment.
I still feel like I'm not disengaging/dis-embedding from the experiencer-experience. Like the meditation is part of the dream, part of the spinning of the wheels. But I guess this is part of the process of removing doubt that spiritual practice is my last hope for refuge and freedom.
So after some time, I dropped into watching conscious awareness and its contents. Good, steady but not a very deep samadhi.
At about 40 minutes the urge to stop and mental fatigue were overwhelming. Ended on positive note. The only bad meditation is one that isn't done.

"

nice

6/18/10 - 6/19/10: Sitting notes not recorded. Did not meditate 6/20/10. I'm starting to get antsy about not sitting everyday. But noting happens on and off throughout the day. Signed up for 10-day Goenka retreat in mid to late July. Hope I make it off of the wait list and get called to come down.

6/21/10: Late PM. ~35 minutes.
Sat down previously having been concerned about ability to concentrate. Also just finished reading "Saints and Psychopaths" by William Hamilton. Also read some parts of a translation of Mahasi Sayadaw's Progress of Insight (Visuddhiñana-katha).

Noting at 4 levels. A couple of thought streams captured the attention, but as I continue to sit I am catching the drifting sooner and noting happens more quickly. Not catching subtle things, but I'm not concerned. I am sure that continued practice will lead to regaining the ability to catch the subtler, faster stuff flitting by,
About halfway (?) through the sit, went into concentration on nada (high pitched sound "inside" the left side of head): it's always there and it's a great point to focus on. Mixing with noting had mixed results. But surprisingly I was able to go fairly deep. A brief interlude of "the avalanche between the ears". Returned to insight while embedded in light samadhi. Kind of worked. A phone call distracted the sit at about 35 minutes.

6/22/10: Early PM. 45 minutes.
The intent of this sitting was concentration only. In the first few minutes, I looked for something to focus on. For a second,attention followed concentration itself, followed by attention on the I-sense. I picked the faint high-pitched nada sound again because of previous good results with that.
This session was a beast. Most of the session consisted of keeping the attention still and steady while rapidly disengaging from emerging thought streams.IN retrospect, it felt like hacking through thick brush with a rusty machete.
Not so much (verbal) noting as (attention-nonverbal) noticing. That way, less intrusive yet able to identify some basic tensions underlying familiar "broken record" thought streams and reveries. That helped with the rapid disengagement. Concluded sit with a positive though fatigued feeling.
I think a portion of weekly sits has to be concentration only. The insight meditations have been very fruitful in the begininng, but continued interruptions (i.e., more than 24 hour breaks) between sits and rather weak concentration probably caused a slowing of progress.
Anyway, I will do some yoga vinyasas later on. Maybe try an insight sitting.

6/23/10: Late PM. Very short sitting -- maybe 15 minutes. Resolve not strong enough to fight fatigue. One thing to mention is that a thought-stream was seen to abruptly end "mid-thought" as if someone turned off the TV all of a sudden. Interesting.

6/24/10: Early PM. 45 minutes.
Previously, noted on a ~20 minute bus ride.
After doing some reading, I reflected and it occurred to me that I just wasn't putting enough effort into the sittings. There have been many instances of mental wandering and I have perceived a lack of buildup of a concentration "quantum"
I resolved, this sitting, to put in a good amount of effort to stay focused on the noting. It paid off and provided a new standard for future sits.
Vigorous noting at 4 levels. Picked up speed a couple of times. Though there was a lot of difficulty initially and some throughout.
Noticeable deepening, wandering less frequent, and what thought streams sneaked through were noted quickly. Sometimes I had to pare down the noting vocabulary to more basic (but not more general) labels in order to label stuff.
At times, it seemed that access concentration was dawning on the mind, with a distinct sense of everything quieting down (even seemingly outside my window) and thought streams sounding far off. Reminiscent of deep witness meditation. Closed-eye visual artifacts. Instances of eye flutter, parts of my body twitching, and one instance of being seemingly knocked backwards by a force. Almost got really embedded in that since I was kind of glad to see "symptoms".
At one point, it seemed that there was this sense of how I was so sick of spirituality and meditation and seeking. Noted and it passed.
Towards the end of the sit, it appeared that there was some kind of somatic "culmination" as if readying for something. Whole body very tense, mind very steady, eye flutter, brief rumbling between the ears, then... relaxation.

6/24/10 continued:
Fatigue/urge to quit was overwhelming. Concluded the sit, then looked at the clock and it was one minute to the alarm.

Interesting: it seemed like I was a bit "out of it" for a few minutes. More interestingly, the noting kept continuing, almost as if by itself, for a good 10-15 minutes after I got up and walked around.

So I would conclude and say this was a good sit!

Bit of a postscript here: so part of this is to keep the noticing going on throughout the day. I've still not yet remembered to disembed in the midst of an experience (especially interpersonal) "out there in the real world". But I have remembered to do so, right afterwards. This I am confident that, with practice, can improve. However, my question is: is the best response simply to note impressions/feelings/associations/thoughts during or after some activity (after one remembers to note and disembed)? It still seems rather contrived because it doesn't "feel" like I've dis-embedded through the noting.

Chris, when you are noting, do you do it at the body level, then the level of feeling tone, then the level of emotions, then the level of thought? I find this is a good way to get dis-embedded as if I just allow the attention to go to what is most prevalent without a good bit of concentration/mindfulness already built up (kind of like you talk about at the end of post 32) then thoughts tend to slip without getting noted in because they are subtle.

Either way, keep what you are doing, you'll start seeing some patterns if you keep noting/journaling.

Hi mumuwu. When I'm sitting, I note at the 4 levels you describe. Some levels predominate at some times over others, and I always return to "rising-falling", especially at the end of having noted a thought stream that slipped by or, in the "outside world", when I remember to keep noting. My last post before your reply was kind of open question in the sense that I get frustrated because, off the cushion, noting isn't happening as often as it could. Yet.
But thanks for the feedback! I don't do the noting sequentially through the 4 levels. I might try that when out and about engaged in some activity, meditation or not.

6/25/10: Mid AM. A short sit -- about 25 minutes. I think that drowsiness provokes the mind to visual thought forms (imaging, visualization heavy) than to verbal forms. Because of this, I felt as if noting through tsunamis of visual thought forms was like sweeping back the sea with a broom. I think I have to time food intake too, maybe eat at least an hour before sitting. That might have contributed to the sluggishness. The positive thing is that I was able to keep the noting going through the discomfort of the moment.
Before the sit, I did note with good concentration and rapid call-outs while waiting for the bus (about 20 minutes).
I will likely have another go at it later tonight,

Sluggishness can be noted just like anything else. Like Kenneth would say, become an expert on your sluggishness/sleepyness.
Note sluggish. Note sleepy. Notice how it feels "heavy eyes" or " poor concentration" "frustrated at poor concentration" "wishing I wasn't sleepy" "having a thought that I should eat less before sitting" "wish I could nap" "heavy eyes" "still sluggish" "sleepy" "pressure at top of head coming down on eyes" "random thoughts (name the thoughts) "random images" (name the images)
like that
there is no perfect or better or worse mental state to be in while doing vpassana

Was that helpful or did you already know all that? I hate it when people tell me things I already know.

Well it may be that I know what you're saying intellectually, but, damn, it was what I needed to hear. So thanks man!

to 6/27/10: did not take notes
6/27/10:
2 sittings at 20 minutes each. Concentration getting steadier. Though it seems that, at this point, any break or discontinuity in daily practice is detrimental to the development of the mental quantum. After some research, I decided that there need not be separate sessions for concentration building. Experience is demonstrating that concentration is building well concurrently with insight at the present time. But it does appear that concentration and insight build up dynamically, like a leap frog effect. One develops past the other, then the other jumps past, and so on.
Beyond sitting, I am picking points to concentrate on during "lulls in the action", such as waiting for the bus, etc.

6/28/10: Did not sit
6/29/10:
Sitting 1, late AM, ~20 minutes
Visual imagery predominating over verbal thought streams. Seems like the mind is "fast forwarding" to a state of concentration. That is, the buildup to a familiar level of concentration is happening more quickly into the session. Took the advice of the kind folks on here and did 2 things. Built up noting through the 4 levels sequentially until all 4 were reached, then noted at all 4 levels as perceptions arose. Also determined to note "drowsy", "distracted", "recollection", "fatigue", "impatience", etc., as I was getting drowsier and drowsier. Didn't fall asleep though. The state came and went as if a simple itch.
Insight of note: Arising perceptions, not arising phenomena, are what's being noted. Thought that was interesting. Also the speed of noting is increasing.
Strange thing though, is that 20 minutes seems to be some kind of wall I'm running into. This time around, a loud crack of thunder both alerted me to how embedded I was in a reverie that had taken hold of attention and ended the sitting.

6/29/10: Sitting 2. Late PM, ~30 minutes. Very quiet room, raining, lightning and thundering. Somehow a very good environment to cultivate concentration and continuity of noting. Seems like everything is picking up steam: Rate of labelling, rate of noticing, depth of concentration. Also a pervasive curious, investigative attitude to the sit. Verbal thought streams predominated at first, then imagery. Rapid noting at all 4 levels. Pleased with the lack of fatigue and stronger concentration. It might have helped that I exercised earlier that evening.
Insight of note: Individual thoughts and emotions are further collapsible. That is, "dread", "pride", "pleasant", "planning thought", and so on, are further breakable into "tension", "thought", "heat", etc.
Eventually things were being noticed at a rate that was too fast for labelling. This was a bit overwhelming at first. Concentration still needs to build and build. Still, I was pleased with the increasing steadiness of mind.

"Also the speed of noting is increasing. Strange thing though, is that 20 minutes seems to be some kind of wall I'm running into. "

Hi Chris. Out of curiosity, what happens to you at the 20 minute mark? I've had similar experiences where I couldn't seem to sit past some fixed end time. For me, I'd get fidgety leading up to that time and have a strong urge to keep checking my timer and similar sensations. Like everything else, I noted those thoughts and urges and was able to move past them. Is that what's going on with you or is your wall more related to being able to maintain your increased speed in noting?

Hey there, nice to know I'm not the only one who's experienced this in meditations. The fidgety urge has been there for a while now, so I don't think it has to do with the increased speed in noting. So I guess since you're writing on this in retrospect, I'm hoping that, eventually, this "wall" recedes in influence. Man I hope so!

Chris,

Have you tried staying with one meditation object till it changes/vibrates/bubbles/flashes/etc?

Those descriptions are somewhat visual, but it is more of a tactile sort of thing for me. If I focus on my lips and watch the sensations (pressure, some tingling) change into a more broken up series of smaller points of tingling, this often triggers pressure around the mouth, which can spread to the chest say and then there might be some rising energy, etc. I can then take one of these as an object and continue to do this until things really start cooking.

So I would typically spend some time noting rising falling with deep breaths to calm the mind and develop some concentration. I might also do some breath counting (1 on in 2 on out up to 10 repeat). Eventually I'll feel some warmth and tingling and then if I do the lip thing as above I get some real insight into the impermanence of phenomenon. I tend to try and keep part of my attention on the abdomen and return to it until I no longer need to as an anchor. I do the breath counting thing or the noting of the adomen (which I am starting to favour) throughout the day to develop/keep concentration. I can also allow my self to be aware of as much as possible while holding the breath in awareness and noting.

But, as per before, keep up the good work, a wall is a good thing. That's the next hurdle to tackle. It could become a marker for a place in a cycle for you (i.e. just note the wall sensations. They might be part of some strata of mind you will run into repeatedly.). My mind sometimes get quite scattered after 1st jhana territory (knowledge of cause and effect).

Hey, it's interesting you bring up the issue of energetic and vibratory perceptions. I was just reading about that elsewhere in the forum. Maybe my wariness of such things is a byproduct of having believed for years that paying attention to such things is dangerous and antithetical to spiritual practice. Which is ironic in a sense since psychedelic experiences were long ago a significant phase of this spiritual seeking I've been doing. I came upon "hardcore Theravada practice" a little while ago, and I'm open to the possibility that arising perceptions of energetic phenomena are important, at least as markers of spiritual work. Though I find that the "avoid fondness for siddhis and other parlor tricks" subroutine is still in place...
Anyway, your feedback is enough to provoke me to pay closer attention to somatic and psychic "weirdness", though I won't go out of my way (i.e., won't get disappointed if nothing like that is noticed). Up until now, there have been the low-level twitches, flashes of heat, chills, and tinglings alright. But I haven't stayed with them. I'll try it starting with the next sitting.
And -- I'll definitely try a couple of rounds of breath counting before insight meditation as a way to ground concentration. Yes, the rising-falling is becoming a mainstay of everyday noting both on and off the cushion.
As far as the wall, it's surely something interesting to investigate if perception of it arises again.
Thanks mumuwu!!!

"So I guess since you're writing on this in retrospect, I'm hoping that, eventually, this "wall" recedes in influence. Man I hope so!"

No doubt the wall will go away for you eventually ... or at least move further out. When I kept hitting mine, I just made a promise to myself that I would not get up before the timer went off no matter what. I would set it for a couple of minutes past my current wall. Then I would sit and note the wall sensations once they started coming up. After struggling through this a couple of times, I got to the point where I was looking forward to the wall coming on. The strong sensations really give you something to work with. After awhile, it was as if my meditation didn't really start until I noted my way through those sensations. Work with the low hanging fruit, as Kenneth likes to say.

Good luck!

Jarrod

"When I kept hitting [my wall], I just made a promise to myself that I would not get up before the timer went off no matter what. I would set it for a couple of minutes past my current wall. Then I would sit and note the wall sensations once they started coming up. After struggling through this a couple of times, I got to the point where I was looking forward to the wall coming on. The strong sensations really give you something to work with."-jfmatteson

Word.

"Hey there, nice to know I'm not the only one who's experienced this in meditations. The fidgety urge has been there for a while now, so I don't think it has to do with the increased speed in noting. So I guess since you're writing on this in retrospect, I'm hoping that, eventually, this "wall" recedes in influence. Man I hope so!"

I totally relate to the wall thing. Sometimes it's almost like this clear message: "The sitting is over. It's OK to get up now." I'll try work with sitting through this a bit more. I've done this some by resolving to sit for specific periods of time. You're then forced to finish out the hour or what have you. Makes me wonder what that "wall" is all about...

Hey Jarrod, the next day's sitting went through all the way to the timer (45 minute mark). Go figure. But: Since there is no guarantee that arising perceptions of urgency and wanting the experience to end (a.k.a., AVERSION) won't pop up again. If they do, I will follow your advice and welcome this composite of tensions, thoughts, and feelings otherwise known as "The Wall" to see what the hell is going on.