Alex's journey to the source of consciousness

Hi Alex,
Most wonderful! I've been away for far too long. Now that I am back and reading Kenneth's web site and your wonderful thread, I regret having been so long away.

What you have described as the first stage of awakening, beyond ordinary waking consciousness, dreams and deep sleep, is labeled "turiya" in Advaita Vedanta, as you probably know. It is the "4th state." The stage of liberation beyond that, which you talked about, is called "turiyatita" ("beyond the 4th"). THAT is the unspeakable essence of Being, beyond both existence and non-existence.

Hi Mike,

Nice to see you here. Your tips, suggestions or comments will be greatly appreciated.

Yes, I am actually speaking about Turiya and Turiyatita. It seems that Turiya naturally matures into Turiyatita when we realize that Turiya is not only the fourth state beyond ordinary waking consciousness, dreaming and deep sleep, but a non-state within which all states of consciousness arise and pass away.

Since something clicked for good in May this year, I am not anymore identified with body and mind but with the pure consciousness within which body and mind appear. That's the first step. As I understand it, Turiya (and Turiyatita) belong to the second step from Nisagaradatta's point of view.

Observing the gradual dissolution of the feeling I AM (or sense of existence) is gradually leading me to Turiya. But to abide in it permanently is rather tricky do to the force of habits (vasanas). What I find challenging is to realize the continuity of existence during deep sleep. What I understand is that as long as we are identified with consciousness, deep sleep will always feel like the momentary extinction of our being. As we start to observe consciousness as an impermanent object arising within a deeper reality, deep sleep should naturally start to be seen as a passing veil of forgetfulness within the same deeper reality.

Practically speaking, the best way to accelerate the process is apparently to witness the dissolution of the mind during cessation (Nirvikalpa, Nirodha), reflecting on the fact that even during the momentary absence of consciousness we never cease to exist. This lead me to get back to Jnana practice to access and abide in solid formless Jhanas. Unlike many very advanced Vipassana practitioners on this forum, I am not yet able to access Nirodha Samapatthi at will. It seems that the Vishuddhimagga suggests making a resolve from the 7th Jhana. I will try.

Having followed Nisargadatta's method of Self-inquiry under the supervision of an Indian Advaita Guru from Mumbai, I have received confirmation that I have become a Jnani. It has mainly been a question of translating terms and clarifying a few points related to the above discussion.

What we call cessation (nirodha) is what Advaita Vedanta calls the causal body or Anandamayakosha. It is a total cessation of the mind's activity leading to a state of blankness similar to deep sleep. Going through this experience, we understand that if consciousness is temporarily obscured, there is still a sense of continuity of being. We don't cease to exist during cessation, nor during deep sleep.

While holding on to the I AM (or the sense of existence) as an object of deep meditation, going through various states including cessation, there comes a point where the I AM dissolves. The sense of self drops, leading to a sense of pure beingness. At this point, the meditator is gone. The house is empty. But there is still a form of impersonal awareness of being. And this state is still known. We intuit that this non-dual state is known by something deeper that cannot be experienced or seen, because we can only that.

That which knows the vanishing of the sense of self is the Self. It is the witness, the source and the substance of all states of consciousness. That is the Absolute, the Source, the Heart. That is what Nisargadatta calls the awareness prior to consciousness. And we are That. And everything is a display of That.

Thanks for saying Alex. Watching your latest explorations have been most helpful and fruitful for me. I appreciate you taking the time share!

Adam.

Thanks Adam. One thing that puzzled me is the notion of the continuity of awareness during deep sleep. Some people have assumed that one was to try to bring consciousness within deep sleep, playing with lucid dreams and other related altered states of consciousness.

But evidence shows that this is not what Ramana Maharishi was talking about. It is just that when we start to lose the identification with waking consciousness in favor of the pure awareness of being (sat-chit), deep sleep is not anymore the negation of our existence. It is only when we take waking consciousness (and even consciousness) to be our essential reality that the temporary cessation of consciousness feels like the negation of our being. Having died before death, death ceases to be a cause of existential anxiety.

As far as I am aware, jnanis sleep like everybody else but know that deep sleep (and possibly death) is not the negation of their existence, but only a particular state of consciousness appearing within the natural state, marked by forgetfulness in the absence of memory that still feels peaceful and enjoyable.

Another issue was what we called "The Controversy". From what I understand what Nisargadatta called awareness (prior to consciousness) is not incompatible with Daniel Ingram's definition of awareness in the "No-self vs True Self" chapter of MCTB. In particular, we should note that awareness is not a thing. It cannot be seen or experienced as such, but can only be intuited through direct knowledge (jnana). We cannot say that it exists as it can never be an object of experience, nor can we deny its existence. It is therefore empty, beyond being and non-being, unborn and free from suffering.

I have just finished an hour of sitting practice in a traditional Beijing home. Sitting on the terrace, above the inner courtyard, a cat is observing me.

Yesterday, I was allowed to visit the Ch'an Hall of a Zen temple in Tianjin. The Buddha Hall had impressive painted statues of the 18 Arhats (Lohan). I had the opportunity to chat with the local monks while visiting their Ch'an Hall. I must say that I was lucky since visitors are normally not allowed to visit the Zendo. One of them was very interested by my meditation experiences and shared a lot about his own practice. From what I can tell, they are now very active, traveling from temple to temple, visiting holy mountains such as Emei Shan. They also have long 70 days retreats in Winter near Hangzhou.

I am starting to find the way to abide as the Source from Third Gear practice:

1.) BE AWARE OF AWARENESS
This is what we cold call Awareness Watching Awareness.

2.) BE AWARE OF THE SENSE OF BEING
The sense of existence or the sense I AM is deeper than the sense of awareness, as it is also present during deep sleep.

3.) LET GO OF CONSCIOUSNESS
Consciousness is marked by restlessness. It is still an aggregate (viññāṇa-khandha). In order to detach pure Awareness from its false identification with waking consciousness, one needs to get used to let go of consciousness, allowing it to eventually fade away, going through the dreaming or even dip into deep sleep while holding on to the sense of being. At this stage, one may eventually reach a stage where one is only aware of being (sat-chit), while leads to happiness, silence and stillness (ananda). This is fourth state called Turiya.

4.) INTUIT THAT WHICH KNOWS PURE BEINGNESS
When the sense of self drops, what remains is pure beigness, suchness or non-dual awareness.
Since we are gone (the sense of self has dissolved), who or what knows this pure non-dual state?
We cannot see it as as object, but we can intuit it through direct knowing (Jnana).
We cannot see the Absolute, because we are That, beyond being and non-being, beyond birth and death.

5.) BE AS YOU ARE
At this stage we can only be. Nothing to do and nowhere to go.


Awareness is then only aware of being (Sat-Chit) - happiness comes as a result (Ananda). One then reaches Turiya

I have tried to edit my previous post, but the website is not responding. Here is a better outline of my current practice.

1. Be aware of the fact that you are present and conscious (the focus is more in the back of the head space, thoughts, feelings and perceptions are seen as a display of consciousness perceived by consciousness within consciousness).

2. Be aware of the sense of existence (the focus drops below the navel area and one feels more centered, aware of the sense being).

3. While settled in your sense of being, observe consciousness doing its thing, allowing it to eventually fade away (it may feel like falling asleep).

If you go through the dreaming state, observe the continuity of the sense of existence through dreaming.

If you go through deep sleep or cessation, try to realize that the sense of existence was present even during the experience of blankness.

If the sense of self dissolves into non-dual awareness, try to notice that this wonderful state of pure (selfless) beingness is still an experience. Try to notice that you exist prior to non-dual awareness, deep sleep, dreaming or waking consciousness. Try to notice that what you are is the witness of all states of consciousness.

4. Remain in the natural state free of grasping and aversion, allowing all states to come and go.

Thank you, Alex. This really piques the sense of wonder.

I should add that That which knows all states of consciousness is also the source and substance of all states of consciousness. In the Zen tradition, we call it the 'essence' of Mind. Consciousness is its 'function'. Essence and function cannot be separated. They are like the lamp and its luminosity. The lamp cannot see itself. It knows itself through its reflection (consciousness).

Thank you Mpavoreal. I hope that it's not getting too abstract.

I am just back from a Beijing Zen center. Tonight the practice was focused on mindfulness of breathing, followed by an interesting discussion about the 5 aggregates and how they build upon each other to form our experience culminating with the aggregate of consciousness.

I then shared shared a few insights and experiences with the teacher after the class and discussed various type of Zen practice. He told me that there is a growing interest for South Asian type Vipassana in China.

Keeping in mind that what we now as typical Zen practice (Koan Zen, Shikantaza) did not exist before the 12th century, this "new" trend feels like a reform going back to the roots of early Ch'an, which was basically hardcore Vipassana with the view of the Mahayana. No wonder local Zen temples are filled with statues of the 18 Arhats.

This is good stuff, Alex. We've talked about this before via email, and I'm glad you're putting it back out there for others to read as well.

I'm all for people practicing koans and shikantaza. But it's sort of a misnomer to think that Zen completely eschews vipassana practice. Zen is very much like Vajrayana, in the sense that this very body and mind are considered to be the body and mind of the Buddha. Vipassana practice just so happens to be an excellent way to ground one's self in the body, in all its glory and horror, so that realization can come through the body rather than in spite of it. This perspective is much different than the airy fairy, philosophical Zen that masquerades as the real thing in the West.

Jackson

If it matters, at least in the Northern California zen and vipassana communities there is a lot of cross training and communication between the two practices. Plus, Joko Beck (zen student of Maezumi) certainly evolved into a vipassana-style practice.

And, I know I'm in a minority on this but I think that shikantaza for some people some of the time becomes a vipassana practice almost by default. If one "just sits" one is going to start to objectively note all the objects arising and passing.

Lately in my sits I'll just be sitting there, aware of each breath, aware of my posture, and synching up with all the objects as they appear, do their thing, and pass, and I'll think, "THIS is zazen. This is what all those sits at the zen center were leading up to."

"
1. Be aware of the fact that you are present and conscious (the focus is more in the back of the head space, thoughts, feelings and perceptions are seen as a display of consciousness perceived by consciousness within consciousness).

2. Be aware of the sense of existence (the focus drops below the navel area and one feels more centered, aware of the sense being).

3. While settled in your sense of being, observe consciousness doing its thing, allowing it to eventually fade away (it may feel like falling asleep).

If you go through the dreaming state, observe the continuity of the sense of existence through dreaming.

If you go through deep sleep or cessation, try to realize that the sense of existence was present even during the experience of blankness.

If the sense of self dissolves into non-dual awareness, try to notice that this wonderful state of pure (selfless) beingness is still an experience. Try to notice that you exist prior to non-dual awareness, deep sleep, dreaming or waking consciousness. Try to notice that what you are is the witness of all states of consciousness.

4. Remain in the natural state free of grasping and aversion, allowing all states to come and go.
"

Excellent summary of your practice, Alex. Very concise; very useful. Your Realization is plain to see. My only request is that we discuss terminology. You have make fine distinctions here, particularly with the terms "consciousness" and "awareness" and "witness" (the latter being both a noun and a verb -- how perfect!). Where we still need to gain clarity is in use of the terms "existence" and "being." The latter 2 terms have been not used consistently in some of your posts. My preference is to say that being (or Being) continues with or without "existence." Does that make sense to you?

Selected quotes from Alex
Alex wrote in the following posts (labeled by date):
Aug 6 2010, 4:31 AM EDT
"I am not yet able to access Nirodha Samapatthi at will. It seems that the Vishuddhimagga suggests making a resolve from the 7th Jhana"


Aug 11 2010, 7:01 AM EDT
"We don't cease to exist during cessation, nor during deep sleep."

"While holding on to the I AM (or the sense of existence)... The sense of self drops, leading to a sense of pure beingness..."

"That which knows the vanishing of the sense of self is the Self. It is the witness, the source and the substance of all states of consciousness. That is the Absolute, the Source, the Heart. That is what Nisargadatta calls the awareness prior to consciousness. And we are That. And everything is a display of That."

[continued]

Alex wrote in the following post (labeled by date):
Aug 11 2010, 10:19 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2010, 5:40 AM EDT
"...to bring consciousness within deep sleep, playing with lucid dreams and other related altered states of consciousness. ...is not what Ramana Maharishi was talking about. It is just that when we start to lose the identification with waking consciousness in favor of the pure awareness of being (sat-chit), deep sleep is not anymore the negation of our existence. It is only when we take waking consciousness (and even consciousness) to be our essential reality that the temporary cessation of consciousness feels like the negation of our being. Having died before death, death ceases to be a cause of existential anxiety.

"As far as I am aware, jnanis sleep like everybody else but know that deep sleep (and possibly death) is not the negation of their existence, but only a particular state of consciousness appearing within the natural state, marked by forgetfulness in the absence of memory that still feels peaceful and enjoyable."

"...awareness is not a thing. It cannot be seen or experienced as such, but can only be intuited through direct knowledge (jnana). We cannot say that it exists as it can never be an object of experience, nor can we deny its existence. It is therefore empty, beyond being and non-being, unborn and free from suffering."

"Selected quotes from Alex
Alex wrote in the following posts (labeled by date):
Aug 6 2010, 4:31 AM EDT
"I am not yet able to access Nirodha Samapatthi at will. It seems that the Vishuddhimagga suggests making a resolve from the 7th Jhana"


Aug 11 2010, 7:01 AM EDT
"We don't cease to exist during cessation, nor during deep sleep."

"While holding on to the I AM (or the sense of existence)... The sense of self drops, leading to a sense of pure beingness..."

"That which knows the vanishing of the sense of self is the Self. It is the witness, the source and the substance of all states of consciousness. That is the Absolute, the Source, the Heart. That is what Nisargadatta calls the awareness prior to consciousness. And we are That. And everything is a display of That."

[continued]"

The 7th Jhana, or Nothingness, is equivalent to deep sleep with undiminished awareness. It's just one state among others' it is nice to have but non-essential. In other words, attaining it is a skill one can hone, but that attainment is not transformative.

I like your statements about I AM = sense of existence, and how "pure beingness" is only known after that sense of self has dropped away.

You indicated that Self = witness = source and substance of all states of consciousness. We are THAT. Yes! But THAT is not many, not "we", but only the One who manifests objectively and subjectively as each of us.

"Alex wrote in the following post (labeled by date):
Aug 11 2010, 10:19 AM EDT | Post edited: Aug 12 2010, 5:40 AM EDT
"...to bring consciousness within deep sleep, playing with lucid dreams and other related altered states of consciousness. ...is not what Ramana Maharishi was talking about. It is just that when we start to lose the identification with waking consciousness in favor of the pure awareness of being (sat-chit), deep sleep is not anymore the negation of our existence. It is only when we take waking consciousness (and even consciousness) to be our essential reality that the temporary cessation of consciousness feels like the negation of our being. Having died before death, death ceases to be a cause of existential anxiety.

"As far as I am aware, jnanis sleep like everybody else but know that deep sleep (and possibly death) is not the negation of their existence, but only a particular state of consciousness appearing within the natural state, marked by forgetfulness in the absence of memory that still feels peaceful and enjoyable."

"...awareness is not a thing. It cannot be seen or experienced as such, but can only be intuited through direct knowledge (jnana). We cannot say that it exists as it can never be an object of experience, nor can we deny its existence. It is therefore empty, beyond being and non-being, unborn and free from suffering.""

The spectrum of consciousness, considered vertically, is deep and tall, but not infinite. The strata or horizontal "frequency bands" within that spectrum contain countless worlds of discreet experiential narrative arcs (personal life stories or coherent complexes of experience). In the spectrum of consciousness, the exceptions to this plethora of worlds are the strata of nothingness and cessation (7th Jhana, deep sleep, Nirodha) which are refreshingly free of experiential content, as if they have the refreshing flavorlessness of pure water.

Thank you for your comments, Jackson and Telecaster.

@Gozen - I fully agree with you. Thank you for clarifying these issues.
Your wisdom and insights are always warmly appreciated.