a question for arahans - kenneth!

hello kenneth and co!

Thanks for the opportunity to ask high developed people like you!!

I know many people are curious about how it is being an arahan.
you gave already many examples but i never read an answer directed to sexuality! The cool thing is you can not ask an arahan an indiscret question!
If i would become an arahan would i still like to have sex to live with a women? Do you have sex with your wife? How was it before how is it now? Do you get attracted by sight of beautiful women? Can you enjoy sex?
When was the last time you masturbated?
Do you get angry sth?
Do you have temptations?
If you not feel any attraction towards your wife why do you stay with her?
Would it not be more convenient to be in monkhood in order to teach people? Is your wife in this chat? Whats her name? I mean if someone would recognise a change before and after i guess she is the right one to ask! I am curious to read how direct and open you answers will be!

Sorry for my childish english!

kind greetings
nice touch your project really!!

lung

is sayadaw u pandita the one in australia?

Hi lungPi,

Those who hold on to the traditionalist view of what an arhat can and cannot do will most probably react negatively towards what most people here, including Kenneth, consider to be an arhat. For Kenneth, and hopefully I am not misrepresenting him, he considers an arhat someone who is "off the ride". They know that what needed to be done is "done".

It's about all the phenomena, physical and mental, which includes the formation of the sense of self, being seen as equal, no better than, no higher status for one sensation over another. The whole playing field is leveled. No king of the hill. No stickiness or clinging element there. The mind becomes a teflon mind. No phenomena has anywhere to land or stick as it arises and passes away. Habitual tendencies still arise but do not stick. Thoughts arise but do not stick Mind states arise but the mind does not stick to them. There seems to be a choice now. You can choose to run with the phenomena or watch it arise within awareness and pass away within awareness. You do not "eradicate" the sense of self. It is seen for what it truly is and it's illusory higher status is taken away and it still arises and passes away like any other phenomena, just with no "stickiness" or clinging involved.

But one can "run with" the phenomena that arises. For example....sexual feelings. I am talking from experience. I have a fiancee after all. They can still arise but don't cause suffering like they may have before. There's no clinging to that phenomena. But it doesn't mean it doesn't arise ever. That is a false idea. For a monk who has conditioned his mind to not have sexual feelings (which is a little doubtful to me) , then perhaps when they become an arhat, they will naturally not have sexual feelings arise, or if they do, being an arahat monk is enough for those thoughts or feelings to arise and pass away without being acted upon. In fact in my experience, this happens for me...I just, on occasion, choose to "run with it" because I care very much for and love my fiancee.

Some habitual tendecies are still strong. There just is no clinging to the phenomena that arises. I still see a woman walk down the street and the evaluating part of the mind says "pretty woman!!!!" and the thought arises of "Wow, she is hot". But that thought lingers for a second or two and evaporates and I continue walking down the street.....no clinging! However, I could choose to act on that thought and say hello to that pretty woman. But since my fiancee would cut my shenanigans off with a blunt razor, I don't and the habitual tendency for the mind to evaluate pretty gilrl vs ugly girl just evaporates and is replaced by something else and so on and so on. No clinging to even a sense of self = no suffering for "Nick" as "Nick" is a fabrication, but it still arises and passes away. Make sense?

My 2 cents

I think you are probably thinking of Ajahn Brahm who started the monastery in Oz... Sayadaw U Pandita was a Burmese man who revived the tradition of insight meditation in the 20th century... Kenneth has spoken about all these things previously. Things still arise, they just are not as sticky...

Nick... be careful man if you continue to love your fiancee you might loose whatever attainment you have, and get bumped down to the hell realms in your next life... seriously that s--- is the devil... hmm maybe not

Lung you are welcome in this community... we hope you find something that interest you... Kenneth's definition of Arahat is different from the widely accepted definition. www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/05/out-of-the...ew-of-enlightenment/ this is a great interview with Kenneth in which he explains his understanding of enlightenment...

Overall I would encourage you to practice and see for yourself. Get Stream Entry (look around its happening all the time) and you will have a better understanding of these questions for yourself... not because anyone told you so...

Edit: Hey Lung I just read your other thread. There is nothing here that needs fixing. I understand you are coming from a fundamentalist background... but the fact is people are making tremendous progress here... Please respect that. You really are not going to help anyone by bashing these forms or our teacher... If you don't like what we are doing here than feel free to move on down the highway... if you are interested in seeing what the Hardcore Dharma movement is like... then stick around...

"... if you are interested in seeing what the Hardcore Dharma movement is like... then stick around...
"


I think the word best used is "Pragmatic" Dharma rather than hardcore.

**head nod to AugustLeo**

Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu! I like that term more, I guess hardcore dharma is just more common vernacular...

"Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu! I like that term more, I guess hardcore dharma is just more common vernacular... "

While I actually hope no name actually sticks to what we are doing here, but, I like the term "goal-oriented dharma" because we are actually trying to DO something and we actually talk about how to get it done in open detail.

I have often wondered what Enlightenment is like, have even asked Kenneth (and got his answer). Firstly there is the old anology, how can one really tell a blind man what it is like to see. All the descriptions can only go so far. Second thing is for those of us not Enlightened, "Enlightenment" is a label that says or means more about our current conditioning than anything else. When I get Enlightened I will have attained this spiritual state, no more suffering, no more seeking, complete happiness. Conditioning is also from our learning, what we have been told or accepted from religious traditions or spiritual teachers ( Kenneth included). A lot of what we imagine Enlightenment to be is a lot of what we truly don't want to be now (even if we consider our understanding highly evolved), so it changes as we do. Well, I wonder if the universe will revolved around my ego ( sarcasm and another highly evolved idea from my ego ), I will have to wait and see.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, judging what Enlightenment is, is like this.

garyh,

Shinzen young has some good videos where he is describing the state:

"A lot of what we imagine Enlightenment to be is a lot of what we truly don't want to be now (even if we consider our understanding highly evolved), so it changes as we do." ~Gary

That's a thought provoking idea, Gary. I've never really thought about it in that way. Thanks.

~Jackson

thanks a lot for trying to answer my questions! Many views and opinions around.

But still i would love to read answers from people who reached the state of full liberation like kenneth says from himself. I apologize if i am traditional conditioned so i have my doupts but i am open to learn more/ do not even trust my own doupts. So thats why i asked these questions to consider further relate to my experience. I need more accurate data.
Until now no answer really satisfies me i hope for more/ direct analysed logic observations/experience no views guesses and opinions. please kindly note like i wrote my question was for arahants!!! ... are you!?

"While I actually hope no name actually sticks to what we are doing here, but, I like the term "goal-oriented dharma" because we are actually trying to DO something and we actually talk about how to get it done in open detail."

Great!!! i could shed tears if i read sth like that!!! I wish you and everybody here all the needed factors to reach what you aim for!!! After talking please gogogo get it done!!

It has nothing to do with the topic but i like how you describe/perceive dhamma. Yes dhamma is goal orientated not only here but in itself. Its clear simple logic direct fair. Yes it was offered to know where you are and HOW to fill the gap between you and the goal. There is also where a teacher finds its place.

Lung I appreciate your last post. I don't think you are trying to be rude, but it has come across that way. Kenneth has not written on the forum today, obviously he is busy with something. I would recommend listening to his interview on Buddhist Geeks...

Part one: www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/01/bg-156-ord...can-get-enlightened/
Part two: www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/02/bg-157-uni...imeless-realization/

He discusses meeting his wife after his arahatship. So obviously he is attracted towards her. Realization will not take away our natural emotions. Also asking questions about someone's sex life on a public forum is considered bad taste... Best luck with your practice...

" .. Sex life... Bad taste...."
Why? Topic nr one in the world! Very normal thing like going to the toilet in everybodies life! i can not make him ashamed because nobody there who could feel so! you can not ask normal minded people thats right not tactful tabu! Thats why i not ask you but him! -please dont get me wrong again just try to make it clear. I thought i made very clear whom i ask for an answer! That you or other "not arahan" answer... Ok is your right because open blog but you have to admit my question was not addressing you or!? I not want to offend anyone thats why i ask arahans! I thought its logic sorry if not for you that if i ask a question for arahans implies that i would like to have an answer from arahans!!! *puhhardworkbecaueswritefromaphone*
beside its an highly important topic since the spiritual quest started.

"i wrote my question was for arahants!!! ... are you!? "

It seems you are looking for some spiritual authority to dictate what you believe? If so what is going to happen when the spiritual authorities conflict, will it be the case you will judge WHAT right based on WHO is right.

There are plently of people out there to tell you what to believe, so while this is your goal the search will be never ending!

... many of his comments/statements stay in contrast with "oldschool" traditional arahans (theravada monks) - their comments/teachings and the more with dhamma/nature itself. I mean methods/styles can differ but not nature.
i try to get a picture about his insights/his dhamma/his stragedy. Asking questions is one way. My questions may make no sense for others but for me! thanks for your care and true advices about believe! someone who believes does not ask back!!! *g*

LungPi, where are you located on the globe? Do you meditate? In which tradition - Zen, Theravada, Vajrayana? How did you find this web site? Are you really curious about Kenneth's teachings or have you already decided that Kenneth's teachings are wrong? What do you mean when you use the word "nature?" Human nature? Buddha nature? The nature of mind?

Forgive me for asking you these questions but I would like to know more about you.

Thanks.

actually i already answered but it got lost in the cyberspace... my signal here is quite unstable!

So before i do it again forgive me to ask why do you want to know these things? In which context are they of use for you?

Thanks

furthermore im reading on this forum for about a week. I read many of your comments so i actually know that you are quite well informed about kenneth (diligent student;) his teachings and about other practioner here.
So in case he does not read my posts are here some other arahans in this forum? Do you know some? Someone outed himaself? Maybe i can ask them privatly because i realize how much time and energie it costs to ask openly and not yet getting any real answers! im not here to bring myself in the middle of interest/ to offend faithful students only trying to figure the effects of kenneths or any arahans practise out. I must seem very unpolite direct untactful because of the reactions! it seems not many ask things like this (sorry if these are tabu topics but i not often met or never an western lay arahan with wife!) but iam very curious to get some fresh informations! such an unusual record in the history of buddhism! I may be too much conditioned from traditional theravada buddhism and noble monks!?
I also apologize if anyone felt attacked! ... even interesting thing to see the cause and effect of energies in words or from the mindstate while writing!!! good teaching for me! Thanks for this oppertunity!

"why do you want to know these things? In which context are they of use for you? "

Because it's polite and courteous. Because it will help people to understand your questions. We all share that kind of information here,so being an intelligent person you might want to inform us just a little bit about yourself. If you don't want to have an equal exchange of information then you should just e-mail Kenneth privately and ask him your questions directly.

"I must seem very unpolite direct untactful because of the reactions! :"

Yes, you do seem impolite. You need to realize that the questions you are asking are coming from an obviously opinionated place, and you won't tell us anything about yourself so your questions aren't read by people here as being friendly and curious. They are seen as antagonistic and demanding and, frankly, I'm not sure a language barrier explains the negative attitude you seem to have.. It appears that you might be more interested in the reaction you're getting than being truly interested in Kenneth's teachings and experience.

Anyway, what you will learn here is in large part up to you.

Peace, lungPi.

not again! ... I had to divide my answer and the first part got lost!

so before this one also gets lost the second part at least.

Is this not the same!? reaktions come from experience! I mean i read already some of his teachings and its obvious that he has experience in many ways. Many things match but many big points not. So i got in interaction! ... But obviously not successful!!! i actually only surf the internet to be up to date about if their are people who are ready and really interested to make use of dhamma! Means passiv reader never posted somewhere something since years!

Anyway, what you will learn here is in large part up to you.

Hmm now that you got what you pleased me do you think there is any possibility left to get simple direct answers to simple direct queations? Any further recommendations in order to make it next time right?I am obviously unskilled unexperienced in this. A beginner! ...but not a lucky one!

Peace, lungPi.

Peace ... What could be added to such a perfect word!

Thank you for your kind instructions and patience!

... these blogging and additional technical problems got too expensive already. My free time right now is very limited because most of it is dedicated to group practise. I think instead with answers i have to go with experience. I just wanted to get quick informations but sth like this needs obviously much more time and energy than im willing to spend. (already a lot got lost)

Anyway time will tell. Just a few years...

My best wishes for all of you ...
Anumothana cmarti you seem to be quite experienced/ in peace/ mindful with clear comprehension! Go on and maybe cu one day!

'Curious and curiouser,' in the words of Alice in Wonderland. This has been quite the whirlwind tour of some sort of cultural collision. After the initial shock, I got to thinking about our inherited, and largely uninspected, assumptions about what can be claimed, what can be asked, and what part of practice is defined as 'none of your business' in different cultures. And then I got to thinking about the Western tendency to assume that when we appropriate things from other cultures, it is not only our right to do so, but that we 'improve' them by the changes that suit us-- in some 'objective' way...

For instance, who defines what an 'arahant' is? The culture that came up with the terms, centuries ago, and added a bunch of stuff that we're inclined to prune away as 'archaic', inessential, naive, etc.-- ? Or us, because we say so, and we're modern, educated, scientific, skeptical-- and thus obviously 'right'--?

It does seem worth considering.

"For instance, who defines what an 'arahant' is? The culture that came up with the terms, centuries ago, and added a bunch of stuff that we're inclined to prune away as 'archaic', inessential, naive, etc.-- ? Or us, because we say so, and we're modern, educated, scientific, skeptical-- and thus obviously 'right'--?"-Roomy

Ideally, neither. If the word "arahat" has any value at all, it must refer to something real and reproducible, something that happens to real people both in the Buddha's time and ours.

Nobody "came up with" arahats.

To illustrate the point, one might ask, "Who defines what a tree is?" It's a nonsense question. A tree is just a tree. Anyone is free to attempt to describe a tree, always understanding that their description is limited to their point of view and necessarily incomplete. If, on the other hand, someone makes a religion out of worshiping trees and begins to make unverifiable claims about the properties of trees, confusing and deluding themselves and everyone else, the rest of us have the right and arguably even the obligation to cry "bulls__t"!

A tree is just a tree. No one owns it and each of us should be allowed to describe it as we see it. If, on the other hand, we are not sure whether we have ever seen a tree, it might be best to remain silent on the issue. The worst case, having never seen a tree, would be to believe all sorts of dis-empowering myths about trees propagated by people who themselves admit to never having seen one.

roomy i admire your skill to present ones view opinion thoughts !!! I have much to learn!

I not want to go with depts... Here cmarti because you are was very polite the answers a third time.
Asia; yes; theravada; read an article about daniel and him got curious (what a claim!) after looking closer suspicious (against the checking system which is present since more than 2000 years = samyojana (10 fetters!?); kamaraga or kamatanha (sensual lust desire); .... One has to study/practise quite a bit to see the whole picture) i guess non of you studied in asia longer and deeper where this all comes from what you all talk about or relate to. And if you not speak the local languages, stay with live examples, noble persons, practise and see byyouself, ... then you easily get lost in your own views opinions like "improvements" "objectivity" "modern" and how you all call it. in pali its called "ditthi" often used together with its close 'friend' "mana". the dhamma is timeless so there is no modern or oldschool! Who wants to modify truth?? - the defilements or deluded mind. .... i get the feeling i waste my time again!? I see only ears who only want to hear what they like, eyes who only want to see what they like...
People like the easy way because it comforts their defilements. I never read someone ever used such words here especially kenneth (i read his stuff the most)!!! Suffering or how to get rid of it!!! Buddha said if someone teaches something and the topic is not about these two things than its not the teaching of the buddha. I guess im already over 2000 words.