The Jhanic Free For All

I'm listening to it right now. It's very useful! Never tried to make resolutions toward the nana's before, but it actually worked. I felt much of the same as you guys up to equanimity. One very prominent thing I recognized that you didn't mentioned, was my exprience of re-observation. In 10th nana, I feel my breath becomes tight and goes up to the chest. My eyelids flickers a lot, and my buttocks are having shaking cramps. It feels very restless, and I feel like ending the "session" or go up to equanimity. It generally feels crappy, and it's a great relief to finally go up to equanimity afterwards.

Keep up this good work

Thanks for this, Clayton, Nick, and Owen! I just saw the latest posts on this thread and can't wait to hear the recording. Three cheers for dharma exploration and freely-shared information!

Kenneth

Hi Kenneth,
I am just editing another version which has a large part previously accidently cut out, back in again. Hopefully we can replace it soon. The current version has the 1st jhana/mind body nana not explained.


Oops..hehe!

Here is the reworked version:

www.divshare.com/download/12525091-c26

Please let us know if there are any major gaps.

Edit: Haha never mind I guess Owen already posted the updated version...

[Bumping this up]

Thank you three for this. I think this really fits the overall project of this website/community: yoga and how to do it.

I'm posting this link here to give visitors not familiar with certain things an idea on how we, at KFD, see jhanas and certain nanas corresponding.

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/page/Jhana+and+%C3%91ana

And concerning being able to talk within the jhanas. Something Kenneth has said:

"When we are able to talk from within a jhana, it means we are able to be in that jhana without being absorbed (embedded) in it. This is good when your objective is to awaken because it means we are able to light a lamp while in a very concentrated place, thereby bringing awakening to that jhana. I think of it as accessing various deep places in the mind in order to awaken the sleeping buddhas who are embedded there.

So we are not staying at a superficial level but rather training the mind to be alert and functional in all sorts of states that are often thought of as inherently dysfunctional.

The simile of the radio: When you tune the radio to FM 101.9, you access the station that lives at that frequency. Depending on various factors like the distance from the transmitter, the power and quality of the receiver and its batteries, and the level of distraction, you may be hearing the music "loud and clear" or faintly, through static. There is a continuum of clarity, but in all cases, you are at 101.9. The best part is that with practice you can learn to dial in the radio until it is crystal clear while simultaneously balancing the boom box on your shoulder and dancing hip-hop. It's a skill to be cultivated." Kenneth Folk

Edited to include: Jhanas are hell easy to access, go in and out of and talk in after 2nd path for most yogis.

Just wanted to jump in here and say thank you to everybody at KFD for all the support on this little project. We all really enjoyed putting this together. This community is such a joy.

Part 2 is coming soon!

This is amazing! Deep thanks.

Fellas,

Outstanding work! Owen, Clayton and Nick, you guys are contributing incredibly to this whole community. I have never experienced fruition thru all three doors (let alone in one sitting) before. Taking it thru all the nanas up to equanimity in the witness certainly allow to catch a glimpse into things one normally would miss otherwise.
I know I speak for most here, we cant wait for part 2!

Thanks so much again, guys

Jorge Freddy

Amazing! After your talk I was able for the first time to catch the vibrational burst between 3rd and 4th jhana as a separate step connecting the two resting places (even if I can't really discriminate every nana).
I also liked the arupa jhanas descriptions.

A question: you stopped in the 4th jhana to get fruitions, and moved to 5th only afterwards.
I'm kind of stuck in 5th and 6th jhana in the current phase of my practice.
Which is the better platform to get fruitions?
Need to go back to 4th, or abiding in formless realms is a good idea?

Thank you so much.

Edited for clarification.

Note to self: On relistening to the recording it seems we may have skipepd quickly over the 2nd and 3rd nanas.

Geppo, are you pre or post path? If you are pre, I reckon you hang out long enough in 4th jhana/11th nana continuing to note and you will progress and eventually pop. If you are post, you can get a fruition in any strata of mind in my opinion. But perhaps the 4thjhana would be easier as it does correspond to the 11th nana and fruition occurs right after the 11th in an insight cycle. But if post path, you could call up a fruition through resolution in any jhana. Try it.

"2. Fruitons. I was able to follow along and do a couple of the annica and dukkha ones. The no-self was a bit trickier and I think it was talked about less so I didn't really get it going (I don't think). Any suggestions for that one? Would a who am I type focus help here or would it just take you up to 6th? Previously I was either getting them at random or by focusing on change (annica). I hadn't really tried the others.
"

Hi mu,

We all seem to have varying entrance experiences for each frution depending on where the main focus is in the body. For the anatta door, when calling a fruition up at that door, I will focus on vibrations/sensations in the head area and see that they arise and pass away without anyhelp. There is nothing controlling them as they arise ad pass away. There is no self there who is in control of those sensations/vibrations. Then I will get a rising energy toward the head and towards the third eye in particular. There will be a rush of anticipation, some tensing of the eyes, they close automatically if open, a pleasant pressure at the third eye spot within the brain begins to grow in intensity really quickly, then soem tensing of soemthing physical within the brain at the third eye spot (pineal gland?), soemtimes a slight head jerk, and then the cessation moment and then exit with a rebooting mind for a couple of seconds, then bliss wave from the head down throughout the body.

Nick

Nick,

At work here. Focusing on vibrations in the head (with an eye to no-self) as you suggest is leading to anticipation / pressure in the third eye. Not getting the cessation. Will try later at home when deeply absorbed (vs. now just sitting at my desk).

Nick,

I'm pre-path, I will follow your advice to stay in the 11th nana.

I know the dynamic you mention in post 37, but can't get the cessation. Sensations arise and pass so fast I can't really put any effort in noting them, I'm just observing/focusing on the process (anicca door I think). Perhaps I still have to develop the pathway to the crown, the energy seems blocked at the third eye.
Could be pleasant, could be tense. Sometimes it seems it is flowing to the top of the head, but does not pop. Eventually the energy is released somehow, not involving the crown and fruition.

Hi Geppo,

I would just keep hanging out there in the 11th if I were you. If you feel naturally inclined to stop noting then just sit back with a wide panoramic focus and watch the whole show. Just make sure you are not sublty embedding in the pleasantness. Spacing out and having the mind bathe in the pleasant vibrations can hinder progress, same as getting pulled to the formless realms as they are so enticing. So if I were you, I'd keep my noting skills going there to disembed from the subltler layers of the mind that we often don't pay attention to, like space, investigation, spacing out, curiosity, anticipation, confusion, and the desire to "not note" etc. Dis-embed from them all!!!!

Keep up posted Geppo!

Hey Geppo,

I agree with Nick. Reach the 11th nana and try to make it stable. If you pay enough attention you will be able to deconstruct all peaceful vibrations that make up that state. This is easier if you doing from the witness state. Once in the witness, you will be able to note (the 3 C's work wonders for me) until you get to that point in which you are noting all the mental processes that are going thru. I would then in a subtle way shift my attention to the witness and ask what am I (3rd gear) and wait to see what happens. This has worked to me in the past when trying to attain fruitions via anatta door.

You are almost there!!

I can't thank you enough. You yogis have helped pull me out of a month long dark night/hell realm experience. Joining this community helped me get back on track with my daily mediation and this recording has helped me discover the arc.
I started meditating at the bell--when you began the preamble. I just focused on your words. This was the first time I noticed the subtly of each strata. I was with you up to the A&P and then I went directly to anxiety and misery with nervousness arising in the shoulders and throat. After that my body became heavy, as if I was hypnotized. The left hand felt light on the left knee, but my right hand felt so heavy, as if it was anchored to the right knee. Then my body almost went away. Next, I had subtle sense of a pastel colored light show. A few moments later Nick said he saw rose colored light, or something, so again, I think a was a few moments ahead of what you were reporting. I had to end early, as I have something scheduled. But, I've never been guided in such a way before. Thank you for helping me reframe/understand my experience. I'm going to sit through this again tonight and see what happens.

WONDERFUL! This what it's all about right here! So glad to hear Cul! So glad!!

Dudes, thank you so much, I really enjoyed the recording, and it really helps me get a clear tour of the jhanas. Thanks!

I guess I'm second path --- just like you said, I can catch glimpses of all the jhanas, but they are not crystal clear. (any tips to get third path are really welcome, I've had it with insight disease)

When do we get a FFA with the rest of the arc? (me want!)

" (any tips to get third path are really welcome, I've had it with insight disease)

When do we get a FFA with the rest of the arc? (me want!)"

Hi Bruno,

The way I made fast progress from 2nd to 3rd was through two practices. Generally when I was in the 11th nana, I would switch to dwelling in the Witness and riding the jhanic arc without any manipulation. When I was passing through the other nanas, I would switch to noting constantly. Actually most of the times I was noting, in the rough periods and the pleasant ones to. When the thought occured to dwell in the Witness, I would which was usually while in equanimity of formations.

I just did this continuously everyday and progress was fast.

We might be doing another recording soon, maybe tonight so stay tuned.

Nick

Hey Nick,

The recording that you guys posted ends around the going in and out of the 8th jhana right? I'm asking because you guys mentioned going all the way to PL5 and then trying NS. That was cut off at least on the recording I heard yesterday. Will that be part of the next recording or did I goof off and click on the wrong link and got the shorter version of the original recording?

"his was the first time I noticed the subtly of each strata. I was with you up to the A&P and then I went directly to anxiety and misery with nervousness arising in the shoulders and throat. After that my body became heavy, as if I was hypnotized. The left hand felt light on the left knee, but my right hand felt so heavy, as if it was anchored to the right knee. Then my body almost went away. Next, I had subtle sense of a pastel colored light show. A few moments later Nick said he saw rose colored light, or something, so again, I think a was a few moments ahead of what you were reporting. "

That's really awesome Cul! it shows that you were simply letting the nanas arise naturally while simply experiencing the phenomena unraveling before you! (specially if you were slightly ahead of the recording, you were not compounding or conditioning the nanas).

This project is proving to be even more helpful to all of us than originally thought. Kudos again to the whole KFD community, and in particular to Nick, Owen and Clayton for taking up the time to record this (and everyone else providing questions and discussing their experiences with the rest of the yogis here in KFD)

"Hey Nick,

The recording that you guys posted ends around the going in and out of the 8th jhana right? I'm asking because you guys mentioned going all the way to PL5 and then trying NS. That was cut off at least on the recording I heard yesterday. Will that be part of the next recording or did I goof off and click on the wrong link and got the shorter version of the original recording?
"

Yeh that was what we are going to visit in the next session as in the last one we had internet problems so felt it best to cut it at the 8th. We will deal with NS as well and if there are any other questions please feel free to ask. I know we kind of went really quickly through the 2nd and 3rd nana. I dont think we spent much time in them.

Anything else?

I only got the time to listen to your recording yesterday, but it might be too late to express my thanks. Wonderful work guys!
I am really impressed to see so many amazing yogis on this forum.