Kenneth's Experiment

Bruno, I like the way you are "talking about setting the highest possible standards for mental development." I am with you there.

The reason I am not talking about permanently removing the support for the lava lamp bubbles is because I don't know. I feel open to whatever future development brings and as always I remind myself that it is not up to me; development, generally speaking has not shown itself to be subordinate to my wishes. I'm like a plant; I will grow the way I grow. I can't say in advance whether I will be a rose or a cactus, but I can do my best to make sure the plant gets enough water, sunlight, air, and nutrients.

As you say, Actualists Richard and Tarin talk about an abiding shift, as do both Tolle and Adyashanti. We shall see what we shall see. If I could script it, I would choose a reversal of figure and ground from my current state but retaining on-demand access to the entire spectrum of "filtered" states. By that I mean that I think my default state is still "riding the wave," but I can, through constant vigilance, sustain myself in "being the wave" (direct perception) mode. I have access to both modes. If that were reversed, my default would be direct perception mode; it would require no effort to sustain this perspective but I would still have full access to filtered (riding the wave) mode when desired.

I will let you know if this fundamental shift occurs. For now, I remain open. As you can see, it's important for me to find out about these things first hand rather than repeat what others have said.

The experiment continues. Today is my ninth day of continuous freedom from anger.

So I'm really digging watching this thing develop. I must admit, initially I had a bit of a difficult time figuring out exactly what all the excitement was about. With the exception of the immediate, rather burning aftermath of 4th path, this has been my default mode, so I think I didn't really notice it thinking perhaps it was a post path feature. Not as though I'm in it all the time, but it is what I always wind up coming back to. I love that we are talking about it because it sorta explains a few things.

1. After 4th, noting felt pretty unnatural. It seemed very contrived. Almost affected. Which now makes sense.

2. I've done a ton of work with somatic experiencing, which is all about grounding the emotions in the body. I got used to doing it. BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if some of us with trauma issues have a lot of success with this, though it will probably have some unpleasant side effects when it's not being maintained.

3. After 4th, my mind is pretty locked into the present anyway, so that along with the grounding seems to produce a kind of artistic luminosity. I especially notice patterns of light coming through the trees during my walk home.

4. Post Zen sesshin, this was the mode, but it only lasted a couple of weeks. I remember being astounded by how new everything looked, and the fact that I didn't seem to have any problems. I wonder if shikantaza is another way into this.

Also, I can confirm the little proto energy bubble around the hara. I notice that when I sink my awareness into it, it seems to intensify the luminosity.

Owen, do you want to join the experiment? The game is to see how long you can go without anger arising. If anger arises, you reset the clock and start over. Honor system. This is a very high standard, so don't be disappointed if it doesn't come easily. My hope is that by continuously grounding the somatic charge in the body the energy will be permanently redirected. In other words, the energy will stop leaking out and causing suffering.

Note: "anger" is shorthand for any emotion with a charge. Anxiety, hatred, self-loathing, resentment, manic joy, depression, shallow glee, agitation, self-pity, desperate craving, etc, are all cues to reset the clock.

I'm in!

"I'm in! -Nikolai"

Great! Naomi? Chris? Who wants a piece o' this?

I think what has been described by Kenneth here and during a talk I had with him this afternoon is very close to what David Smith and old teacher of mine in the UK teaches, and is also similar I think to some of the teachings of Charlotte Joko Beck.

David talks about thoughts being essentially neutral.

However, there is restless emotional energy in the body which seeks to attach to thought and create a world driven by a full blown emotion by doing so.

This energy has its origin in the hara and must be contained and tamed there (David likes quite dramatic metaphors). This seems to correspond to Kenneth's Caspar the ghost image.

Restless emotional charge must be carried on and die on the body.

This is how karma is used up. It is simply starved of energy and attention. He says all other methods throw fuel on the fire in some way because of manipulation.

If the energy catches hold of a thought and creates a reaction (or a world) he describes this as the horse having bolted - and you have to try and rein it in or let it exhaust itself.

I have been doing this for the last four years (with some self-inquiry and dzogchen).

It differs from Rigpa in that it is direct contact with the body (and the senses)., rather than resting in the awareness which knows the senses.

This has felt like a very neck down practice - I don't think I've ever experienced an emotional charge in the head - this is some explanation perhaps for the emphasis on the physicality of sitting in the zen tradition.

For me it has been born out almost entirely on the trunk of the body, and I went through a process of a growing sense of aliveness in this area (helped in part by energy healing work).

Now how much suffering and negativity these last four years?

Much, much less (though I started the practice after what I think was 1st path).

aaa

My emotional life has become much more subtle. More space, neutrality peace, equanimity. Hardly any anger, much less lust. Sometimes this had felt a little boring.

David equates this with your Buddhanature and says it takes familiarization and growing into. I have appreciated the peace more and more.

However, it did not resolve the existential/spiritual dilemna of seeking for me. This has been solved by the developmental process of moving through the paths - though only using 2nd & 3rd gear.

I have found it much harder to be intoxicated by any sense expereince, or work one up including often in sex. The. whole approach has been very sobering

A couple of final points. There is strong emphasis in David's teaching on bearing suffering on the body. To be continually grounding the emotional charge we must be always in the body. The body is often the source of unpleasant sensations (at least mine has - it really hurts a lot sometimes). If you seek to escape these sensations you are drawn back into the world of full-blown emotion as the emotional charge attaches to a thought and creates karmic reaction. A lot of the time I've been walking around and sitting in pain and facing it directly and surrendering to it. This is a price I have paid. Less emotional suffering, more physical pain.

Energetically my hara had developed. Though this has been at the expense of my heart chakra. in a human sense - there has still been metta - but less of the human connection we have by sharing emotional lives in common. I am OK with that because I have suffered less, and occasionally a big life event would blow my heart chakra open anyway.

Oh yes. I think it's a low stress, time rich life style thing. When I've busy and stressed it can still be done but you get lost more, and can end up feeling crucified if the unpleasant vedana reaches strong momentum.

Oh yes. I think it's a low stress, time rich life style thing. When I've busy and stressed it can still be done but you get lost more, and can end up feeling crucified if the unpleasant vedana reaches strong momentum.

I plan to practice this and see what happens. I'm not inclined toward the tradeoffs that were just described by richardweeden, however. I find that the choice I have now - that which I did not have before 4th path - is pretty freakin' nice. I may not be chilled out and mellow all the time but why is that such a huge deal? Is that what I really want to be, all the time? Not sure, folks. I sort of like the roller coaster.

"I should also note that the new practice doesn't feel entirely new to me. It feels a lot like a "dropping" technique that I learned and practiced on and off the cushion for many years. In that practice, whenever I noticed any kind of disruption in the mental/emotional stream, I simply dropped my attention down into the body as whole and the disruption (usually) evaporated and perception became fresh and direct again. What's different now is not so much the access to this kind of perception so much as the stability of it. So, what do you think? Are we describing the same phenomena?" -- Naomi

Short answer - I think we are.

Immediately after 4th path I had no troubles with anything. The entirety of existence was joy, happiness, carefree. Nothing was a problem at all. This honeymoon lasted for a few week and faded after that. What did not fade as the ability to see the entirety of my ongoing experience. Nothing is hidden from perception, there are no special processes or perceptions and I'm not hiding behind assumptions about my experience like before 4th path. I seem to be able to get out of my way any time I choose to do so.

I like the idea of being able to flip a switch and go into direct perception mode. I've been practicing that but as I described earlier, find it very difficult to keep my hand on the Dead Man's Switch because I'm juggling a lot of mental activity, making a lot of quick decisions, in almost constant interactive mode with others. So I need to keep at it. It ain't called practice for nothing.

I'm also a bit concerned that we seem to be careening off in a completely new direction quickly. It's got a funny feel to it. I'm trying to listen to both my curiosity and these other concerns. I'd like to see more from Kenneth and others here in regard to where this fits into the awakening cosmology. I'm just not sure.

So....

I am down to be chilled out and mellow for as long as possible, im not a big fan of the rollar coaster... (could be stage specific)... So I am going on a 12 hour shift (low stress work) this evening, and with Kenneth's metaphors I will see what percentage of the evening I can spend in direct perception

"I plan to practice this and see what happens. I'm not inclined toward the tradeoffs that were just described by richardweeden, however. I find that the choice I have now - that which I did not have before 4th path - is pretty freakin' nice. I may not be chilled out and mellow all the time but why is that such a huge deal? Is that what I really want to be, all the time? Not sure, folks. I sort of like the roller coaster."-cmarti

That sounds sane to me, Chris. I don't think there is any one way to look at these things or any one right way to live. As far as development goes, I don't know where it leads and it is out of my hands. I see myself spiraling around through different points of view as time goes on. I promise not to plant the flag just yet.

Chris.

I'm not entirely sure about the trade-offs either. First i have health problems and experience more physical discomfort than most people. Also I was doing this practice after what I consider to be first path. Some bliss then but as we go through the paths I suspect our level's of pleasat vedana increase. There was also a strong emphasis on what David called learning to love yourself - though I suspect I wasn't always able to hear it. This is why I think the practice is low-stress situation thing - to open upto ourselves in such a direct manner requires the space to be gentle and kind. Otherwise we fall into nihilism - which i think I did at times.

Glad to see we have perspective. I was getting concerned that perspective was getting lost and that many things were getting re-defined as direct perception experiences. Listen, it isn't up to me, either. What I do think we owe people here, however, people who have come here and hung in with all the focus on noting practice, all our collective, breathless descriptions of jhanic arcs and path attainments and so on, is some level of sober evaluation.

Sorry, I don't mean to be the one to spoil the party. I'm just voicing the concerns that occur to me.

"Naomi, the simplest way to know whether you are in direct perception mode is to ask yourself whether there is any suffering at all. Is there any emotional charge in the body in this moment?"

Thanks, Kenneth, for the very helpful clarifications. I now feel more confident that what I am experiencing a good deal of the time is direct perception mode. And sure, I'll participate in the experiment, but would you be willing to give me a few more clarifications?

What exactly is an emotion with a charge vs. information emotion? When I had minor surgery last week, there was a very primordial fear in the body and physical contraction in the face of the pain. There was anxious energy, too. Emotion with a charge or information emotion? I think probably a little of both.

Yesterday, I received an email that represented a minor threat to my organization in an area for which I am responsible. An adrenaline rush arose in the body and was quickly grounded and the energy dissipated. Emotion with a charge or emotion information?

And how much of charge are we talking about here? Are we talking a full blown emotional energy flare that feels, as you put it, like I was taken over by madness or inhabited by a freaky pod person as the basis for a reset? Or does the emergence of a proto-blob of emotion reset the clock?

Great questions. I would add to them this -- how does direct perception mode affect the sensations of the first arrow versus those of the second arrow? My own experience of this is that first arrow sensations can be short-circuited in the body by direct perception mode. Second arrow sensations, those I have always thought the Buddha was referring to as "suffering" are subject to amelioration of the higher Theravada paths, especially 4th path.

Agreed?

Also, the more I think about this and the more I play with it experientially it seems to me this is pretty much just another mode of perception that is available to us human beings if we cultivate it. I may change my mind later, of course, but I'm still very, very happy I did the developmental practices, too. And I'm still struck by the apparent difference between direct perception mode and my experience of non-dual awareness at what I'd describe as a "deeper" level. I'd like to hear Kenneth's version of that, too. At that deeper level everything in awareness is undifferentiated and even space and time themselves are revealed as constructs of mind.

I agree Chris. I think this mode as practiced on the body is fundamentally about dealing with karma rather than resting in the space of non-duality. Though given enough stillness it can be released into awareness and can serve as a good basis for it. It is essentially a containing andsurrendering practice for negativity.

I must say, I've probably come close to anger or been angry at least for a few moments in the past few days. I'm going to play the game too. This is just like that holdthebutton.com game I linked to in the dead mans switch thread. I'll track it in my journal.

"
Glad to see we have perspective. I was getting concerned that perspective was getting lost and that many things were getting re-defined as direct perception experiences. Listen, it isn't up to me, either. What I do think we owe people here, however, people who have come here and hung in with all the focus on noting practice, all our collective, breathless descriptions of jhanic arcs and path attainments and so on, is some level of sober evaluation.

Sorry, I don't mean to be the one to spoil the party. I'm just voicing the concerns that occur to me.

"

Thank you!

I'll pay that toll now, Mr. Toll Booth Guy. I will give over all my resentment and my doubt. And my fear. And my certainty. And I get peace.

Thank you, Mr. Toll Booth Guy. It's a fair price.

Darn it!
I was doing so well after our meeting yesterday, Kenneth. My flag football team sucked today and the proto-blob took life on its own Ego is a *****!
I shall start over starting now (well, about an hour ago when I the protp-blob was totally gone and 3rd gear finally set in again). I'll take on the challenge yet again

"(Kenneth) Note: "anger" is shorthand for any emotion with a charge. Anxiety, hatred, self-loathing, resentment, manic joy, depression, shallow glee, agitation, self-pity, desperate craving, etc, are all cues to reset the clock."

Could you investigate in direct mode if the word "desire" is a better fit for what you are saying here?

"Owen, do you want to join the experiment? The game is to see how long you can go without anger arising. If anger arises, you reset the clock and start over. Honor system. This is a very high standard, so don't be disappointed if it doesn't come easily. My hope is that by continuously grounding the somatic charge in the body the energy will be permanently redirected. In other words, the energy will stop leaking out and causing suffering.

Note: "anger" is shorthand for any emotion with a charge. Anxiety, hatred, self-loathing, resentment, manic joy, depression, shallow glee, agitation, self-pity, desperate craving, etc, are all cues to reset the clock."

Hey Kenneth,
Though I might change my mind about it, I don't really want to count days away from anger. Something feels weird about it, (not the practice, just the experiment) and I can't tell you what exactly that is. It might be that I'm just more into starting to master the concentration practices plus the podcast plus work and can't take another project.

Like I said, with all the SE stuff I did this last few years, it's mostly my default. 4th path just made it easier to stay in it. I'm curious to find out how to do the deadman when intensely focused on something mundane but requiring lots of sustained attention, like coding. I find that my level of absorption in that kind of activity leaves room for only the barest sliver of awareness for anything else. I'd like to experiment with dedicating about 5-10% of my awareness to deadman at all times and see what happens.