Kenneth's Experiment

"So, by seeing how the body/mind wants to react in various situations, but cutting it off, and then seeing how by cutting it off there is peace, does the body/mind get reconditioned so that there is less and less ignorance (or does one merely cling to this process like one would cling to, say, heroin - e.g. reports of folks entering into cycling mode and not enjoying it).

Similarly, does the no-self experience that this practice tends to, over time, impart wisdom about selflessness and lead to awakening/enlightenment?

Will working at this level have a permanent effect on the 12-fold chain, or is it merely a trick which allows one to cut it off at a certain point?

I know that doing similar work several years ago helped me to break a lot of the emotion/thinking conditioning I had which was causing a lot of stress (by paying attention to the emotions as they arose in my chest and just experiencing them at that level)

Only one way to find out I suppose..."

It gets reconditioned so that there is less and less ignorance.

This is like generating awakened inertia. And yes, it leads to awakening/enligthenment. If practiced correctly, this should be fast.

If however, there is a strong tendency to enjoy the klesas, this practice will be missed, it is way too subtle.

"It gets reconditioned so that there is less and less ignorance.

This is like generating awakened inertia. And yes, it leads to awakening/enligthenment. If practiced correctly, this should be fast.

If however, there is a strong tendency to enjoy the klesas, this practice will be missed, it is way too subtle.

"

Thanks, you are a great resource on this front! Wonderful!

Could you please talk about your last statement more?
--Do you mean that for someone who enjoys the defilements - they won't understand this practice?

It seems like most of the following are attenuated directly by cultivating this:

greed (lobha)
hate (dosa)
delusion (moha)
conceit (māna)
wrong views (micchādiṭṭhi)
doubt (vicikicchā)
torpor (thīnaṃ)
restlessness (uddhaccaṃ)
shamelessness (ahirikaṃ)
recklessness (anottappaṃ)

Are you referring to this sort of statement ?:

"Monks, any desire-passion with regard to the eye is a defilement of the mind. Any desire-passion with regard to the ear... the nose... the tongue... the body... the intellect is a defilement of the mind. When, with regard to these six bases, the defilements of awareness are abandoned, then the mind is inclined to renunciation. The mind fostered by renunciation feels malleable for the direct knowing of those qualities worth realizing."[4]"

And regarding the qualities worth realizing, Kenneth has said what remains while doing this practice (in place of the defilements) are the brahma-viharas:

Loving-kindness
Compassion
Joy
Equanimity

"Anger, grief, craving are the fruit.

This direct naked perception is the infinitesimal occurance of
- The three trainings (morality, concentration and wisdom)
- 12 links
- impermanence
- Reality

It is the infinitesimal occurance of many more things.

No wonder Dzogchen means the Great Perfection"

that hit me like a ton of bricks.

May I say this is astoundingly beautiful to me right now...

Here are some recent observations about the relationship between the "coarser" emotions and suffering:

I am distinguishing between full emotions (wax has broken off into full lava lamp blob) and proto-emotions (wax is distorted but whole). Full-on blobs are suffering. Proto-blobs are valuable purveyors of information without the suffering. When the energy is continuously grounded in the body via the lightning rod, full emotions do not arise and therefore there is no suffering. The emotional palette, though, is undiminished because you still have the distinct whiff of each flavor. I was noting mind states today together with a yogi and found that I had access to the full palette, including fear, anxiety, grief, annoyance, agitation, etc, but none of the proto-blobs broke off from the main body of wax, so the entire experience from my point of view was rich and whole, including a sense of compassion for the suffering of another. What I learned is that it is not necessary to suffer in order to feel the suffering of another. This seems to me a very important insight and supports Bruno's observation that from the point of view of direct perception mode, "'Pull up your pants and be a human,' (Puypabah) probably seems like a silly, emotionally-charged taunt."

(The "Puypabah" quote is from comment I made here on the forum a couple of months ago. I have since written a note of apology to the man I directed it to and he has graciously accepted my apology.)

"Here are some recent observations about the relationship between the "coarser" emotions and suffering:

I am distinguishing between full emotions (wax has broken off into full lava lamp blob) and proto-emotions (wax is distorted but whole). Full-on blobs are suffering. Proto-blobs are valuable purveyors of information without the suffering. When the energy is continuously grounded in the body via the lightning rod, full emotions do not arise and therefore there is no suffering. The emotional palette, though, is undiminished because you still have the distinct whiff of each flavor. I was noting mind states today together with a yogi and found that I had access to the full palette, including fear, anxiety, grief, annoyance, agitation, etc, but none of the proto-blobs broke off from the main body of wax, so the entire experience from my point of view was rich and whole, including a sense of compassion for the suffering of another. What I learned is that it is not necessary to suffer in order to feel the suffering of another. This seems to me a very important insight and supports Bruno's observation that from the point of view of direct perception mode, "'Pull up your pants and be a human,' (Puypabah) probably seems like a silly, emotionally-charged taunt."

(The "Puypabah" quote is from comment I made here on the forum a couple of months ago. I have since written a note of apology to the man I directed it to and he has graciously accepted my apology.)"

Well then, isn't this just the best experiment ever. Thank you for undertaking it. This is some really really neat data for us "Buddhist Geeks" to consider...

For context, here is the Three Speed Transmission, cut and pasted from the 3ST page of this website:

3rd gear: If you can just let it be, understanding in your heart and in your bones that the happiness and peace you seek are your own true nature, then let it be. This is known as recognizing buddha nature or dwelling in buddha mind.

If you are distracted and unable to rest in buddha mind, downshift to:

2nd gear: Ask "Who am I?" until awareness turns back on itself. Cultivate the "witness," becoming absorbed in the perspective of awareness taking itself as object.

If, for whatever reason, dwelling as the witness isn't feasible, downshift to:

1st gear: Balance investigation (vipassana) and concentration (samatha). Use mental noting until the noticing is automatic, then just concentrate and notice. The genius of vipassana is that there is never a time when it can't be done. So it's the ultimate safety net and 1st gear practice. It also has the feature of being effective all the way to arahatship (the Fourth of the Four Paths of Enlightenment as described in Theravada Buddhism). So, it's by no means a low-grade or substandard practice. Quite the opposite, it's a very sophisticated technology of enlightenment. Used correctly, together with the other practices listed in this recipe, it's a rocket ship to the moon.

Note: Other than a deepening of my own understanding of the potential of 3rd Gear, the method works just the same now as it ever did. Practice your behinds off people! Or let it be.

"--Do you mean that for someone who enjoys the defilements - they won't understand this practice?
Are you referring to this sort of statement ?:

"Monks, any desire-passion with regard to the eye is a defilement of the mind. Any desire-passion with regard to the ear... the nose... the tongue... the body... the intellect is a defilement of the mind. When, with regard to these six bases, the defilements of awareness are abandoned, then the mind is inclined to renunciation. The mind fostered by renunciation feels malleable for the direct knowing of those qualities worth realizing."[4]"

And regarding the qualities worth realizing, Kenneth has said what remains while doing this practice (in place of the defilements) are the brahma-viharas:

Loving-kindness
Compassion
Joy
Equanimity "

One fascinated with the klesas can understand it in a conceptual way and to a certain extent in an experential way, but perhaps not to the fullest, not transcendently (for lack of a better word). The statement you provide from the sutras makes this very very clear. Fascination with the klesas, and 6 bases are strong distractions.

Kenneth is right! We need 1st and 2nd gear!

Edited: let's see how this thing progresses

"that hit me like a ton of bricks.

May I say this is astoundingly beautiful to me right now..."

I'm so happy to hear this =)

"For context, here is the Three Speed Transmission, cut and pasted from the 3ST page of this website:

...."

Kenneth,

Prior to the couple of days where this practice really took off (where I wrote the descriptions of my night walks) I had spent the work week mainly doing 1st gear practice. On that Friday I was doing very strong 2nd gear practice. I wrote about this in my journal as well and it was very effective. When you wrote about the direct method on Saturday that worked very well also.

Today and the past couple of days, the proto-blob technique has been serving me well in the way of not suffering and things do tend to have a more wondrous quality, but it's thinning out quite a bit from a few days ago. The hurricane / power outages / work / computer crash from this week have been handled in a surprisingly well fashion but they have taken a tole. I think this is really illustrative of the efficacy (and necessity) of the three gears and how they all fit together.

1st gear builds momentum for 2nd which builds momentum for 3rd. If you hit a steep hill and you start to lose that momentum you need to downshift.

"
To someone who has been practicing their noting and working hard to get first path this probably looks very.... well, it's got to be sort of head-snapping, frankly. Than again, maybe I'm overplaying the need for caution. It would be nice to hear from some of those folks, though I suspect they might be a bit intimidated by this topic.
-cmarti

"

Chris, this experiment is exactly one of the reasons I consider Kenneth to be a great teacher. It is fascinating to read about all these high level practises, but at the same time I realize that I need to finish the paths first. Otherwise I will just spoil my practise by advancing too fast before building solid foundations first. So I will continue to diligently do my noting and get some extra motivation from knowing that I have no need to change my teacher when I am finally done.

Antero.

"Chris, this experiment is exactly one of the reasons I consider Kenneth to be a great teacher. It is fascinating to read about all these high level practises, but at the same time I realize that I need to finish the paths first. Otherwise I will just spoil my practise by advancing too fast before building solid foundations first. So I will continue to diligently do my noting and get some extra motivation from knowing that I have no need to change my teacher when I am finally done.

Antero.
"


Word. This expresses where I'm at quite well. Thanks, Antero. And also, thanks, Chris, for raising the issue.

I would just also add that 3rd gear practices seem to improve first gear, too. I mean that in my experience the attitude, for lack of a better word, that is 3rd gear also makes for very solid 1st gear practice. So, practicing 3rd so far has been a support for 1st. In particular, having some experience with 3rd has allowed me to see all the more clearly my cherishing of certain stages and experiences and phenomena in 1st gear, AND given me confidence to outgrow that cherishing. For instance, I'm not so afraid to let go of eyeball fluttering as "a fascinating thing that indicates progress". Which is really important, because that kind of attitude kills further progress. Even a little glimpse of 3rd gear re-emphasizes the non-importance of any single phenomena or experience, and I've found that really helpful.

Something is changing for me. It feels as significant as any previous shift in perspective. The mind is rewiring itself again in a way I would not have anticipated. Still letting it settle, cultivating it, trying not to draw firm conclusions.

The wax does not break off anymore in the lava lamp. The proto-blobs are not becoming blobs, but rather subsiding smoothly as they are noticed as subtle energy distortions or sensations of tension. I cannot know if this is a permanent shift, but it has been stable for almost two weeks. There is a new stability of mind, a new confidence, and a new kind of peace. Although I would not have anticipated it, it feels completely natural and organic as viewed from this side of the fence and clearly builds upon everything I have understood up until now. The 4th Path attainment may be prerequisite to this new stability in the direct perception mode, so the 3 speed transmission holds up; there is no free lunch or instant enlightenment as far as I can tell, and the 1st Gear practices lay the foundation for later surrender.

I have not been angry or anxious for 13 days. I did not see this coming. As I write this, the thought that this new way of being will not last arises along with an unpleasant sensation in the body that I might call proto-fear. But the sensation or energy disruption is grounded in the body and does not erupt into fear; it smoothly subsides, revealing a deep joy and peace.

I remind myself many times each day that I am willing to pay the toll. Part of the toll is knowing; if you know, you do not cross the bridge. In order to experience even one moment of peace, you have to be as simple as a child.

Kenneth, while reading this what comes to mind is only this - thank you.
When one doesn't know that there's a better way, one doesn't put in effort to get there.
When one knows, not only by rumors and half-truths, but by a friend's report, there are no more excuses.

"When one knows, not only by rumors and half-truths, but by a friend's report, there are no more excuses."-YadidB

I know what you mean, Yadid, and this is the main rationale for pragmatic or open-source dharma. Bill Hamilton was the first person I met who was willing to speak from the authority of his own experience while placing it within the context of the ancient Buddhist tradition but NOT ceding authority to the texts. If something was not true in his experience, it was suspect, no matter what the books and the monks said. When Bill told me, on his deathbed, that he was an arahat, a whole new world opened up; because he had been open all along the way, it did not occur to me to doubt him then. And if he could do it, I could do it.

"Something is changing for me. It feels as significant as any previous shift in perspective. The mind is rewiring itself again in a way I would not have anticipated. Still letting it settle, cultivating it, trying not to draw firm conclusions...

I have not been angry or anxious for 13 days. I did not see this coming...the sensation or energy disruption is grounded in the body and does not erupt into fear; it smoothly subsides, revealing a deep joy and peace.
"

Shinzen Young in one of his youtube interview/adress episodes mentioned that much research is needed into awakening.

One of the (many) reasons he said is that there are lifetimes worth of discovery into exactly how vast and deep the territory of awakening/enlightenment is.

This is an example of how this could be...

Mucho gratitude, Kenneth. Thank you for showing us (in person) that it can be done.

Andrew

Kenneth wrote, "I remind myself many times each day that I am willing to pay the toll. Part of the toll is knowing; if you know, you do not cross the bridge. In order to experience even one moment of peace, you have to be as simple as a child."

"part of the toll is knowing: if you know, you do not cross the bridge" - hey, that sounds a lot like the Buddhist doctrines where starting out with not knowing (i.e. ignorance) you end up suffering; or where not knowing is said to be one of the "unskillful roots".

"In order to experience even one moment of peace, you have to be as simple as a child." - didn't Jesus emphasize this?

Cheers,
Florian

"
The wax does not break off anymore in the lava lamp. The proto-blobs are not becoming blobs, but rather subsiding smoothly as they are noticed as subtle energy distortions or sensations of tension. I cannot know if this is a permanent shift, but it has been stable for almost two weeks. There is a new stability of mind, a new confidence, and a new kind of peace. Although I would not have anticipated it, it feels completely natural and organic as viewed from this side of the fence and clearly builds upon everything I have understood up until now. The 4th Path attainment may be prerequisite to this new stability in the direct perception mode, so the 3 speed transmission holds up; there is no free lunch or instant enlightenment as far as I can tell, and the 1st Gear practices lay the foundation for later surrender. I have not been angry or anxious for 13 days. I did not see this coming. As I write this, the thought that this new way of being will not last arises along with an unpleasant sensation in the body that I might call proto-fear. But the sensation or energy disruption is grounded in the body and does not erupt into fear; it smoothly subsides, revealing a deep joy and peace.

I remind myself many times each day that I am willing to pay the toll. Part of the toll is knowing; if you know, you do not cross the bridge. In order to experience even one moment of peace, you have to be as simple as a child."


This is very interesting, Kenneth.

Having experimented with it for about 4 or 5 days, I am also starting to notice that continuous practice may bring forth a permanent shift as the result of an alchemical process. As I see it, the energy of proto-emotions is recycled and transmuted into peace, joy and heightened awareness, reinforcing the feedback loop to make further practice easier and almost effortless.

@Florian: With regard to not knowing, I'm using the same words ("not knowing") in a different way from the Buddhist teaching of ignorance. What I mean in this case is that I must surrender my concepts in order to cross the bridge. Everything I think I know about how things are is standing in the way of clear seeing. So my concepts are part of the toll, part of the currency of exchange, and I must hand them over.

@AlexWeith: I like the alchemy metaphor because that is what it feels like; the base metal of suffering is transmuted into the gold of peace through grounding the proto-emotions in the body. As with alchemy, though, there is a process. In alchemy, you have to arrive at the "quintessence" of something by distilling it five times. In our practice, the transmutation only works consistently for yogis who have done a great deal of prior practice, presumably to the level of 4th Path or beyond. Before that, attempting the transmutation can bring flashes of success along with much frustration. Until a yogi is ready, the transmutation may seem like pie in the sky.

Kenneth should I abandon this practice for now and focus on 1st gear?

"I am distinguishing between full emotions (wax has broken off into full lava lamp blob) and proto-emotions (wax is distorted but whole). Full-on blobs are suffering. Proto-blobs are valuable purveyors of information without the suffering.

"

Thanks for the clarifications, Kenneth. It's been my own experience as well that the proto-blobs aren't a problem and that they often contain useful information. But I've also noticed that sometimes the information is unreliable. Something that the system reads as danger really isn't a threat or a habituated nerotic response gets briefly activated, for example. So in addition to the grounding, there is also a subtle level of discerning wisdom at work that determines what to do with the data. Grounding plus wisdom seems to result in the ability to respond to without suffering, even in geniune threat situations.

I also think that there is a strong biological component in the mix. I've only had one full emotional eruption since mid August and it was actually over something trivial, but I was taking medication that made me feel all amped up, anxious and a little crazy. (It's hard for me to belive that at one time in my life, I thought this was good thing!) At any rate, I also find that the blobs come closer to breaking off when I'm exhausted and/or really, really hungry or otherwise at my biological edge.

And I agree, mumuwu. This is a great experiment and I grateful to Kenneth for undertaking it so publicly for us.
Naomi

I question that arises in my mind: Is there some things that are easier / harder to do in that state of mind? I mean that would explain the reasons why that kind of state isn't possible to maintain - or why it would be possible. It might be a leap towards which evolution hasn't got as yet, but it could also have some aspects of it that are counterproductive for survival in the world..

In either case, I think this is ingenious experiment Kenneth!

Hi Kenneth,
I'd love to hear more of your experiment.
How is it going?

Another request for an update. Anyone?
When all this was going on I was new to the site and totally baffled. I'm slightly less baffled and would love to hear how this experiment played out for any of the yogis who "played the game"?

I thought he covered it in the "Direct Path" videos:



You have to keep your hand on the switch.

Or are you asking if it was made permanent?