The Benefits of Noting

"Now that everyone here is starting to talk to each other more on Socialeyes, perhaps those of us who get benefit from noting aloud could 'buddy up' and practice noting together."

Yes! This is one of my fondest dreams; people can team up and note in dyads. There is no spacing out when you are noting aloud with a partner and the social aspect of it enhances the experience in lots of ways. You can model noting for each other, hold each other gently accountable for staying present and build friendships at the same time. I highly encourage everyone to get with a partner on socialeyes or skype and note together in pairs.

It's easy to split off into pairs from within a group meeting on Socialeyes, and it's easy to find other yogis there assuming we get critical mass and people start logging on there in their spare time. I'm gonna go see right now if anyone is around for me to hang out with...

I got on socialeyes. I added Kenneth as a friend and one other person in this group. I found KFdharma. Now what?

jack

Bump!

Oops, double Bumped!

Anyone else got an opinion you want to share?

I am a fairly new to meditation, begin a daily practice about 4 moths ago. Since then I have tried various meditations including mantra, body scanning, present moment awareness, mindfulness of breath, and a few others. About 10 days ago after getting back from a 5 day personal retreat I started doing mostly noting practice.

Noting has provided me with what I feel is the most rapid progress I have made. Some of the benefits for me include:

Easy to stay focused on the meditation - its obvious when you start slowing down or stop noting entirely.

Easier to investigate what the mind is thinking moment to moment, and catch what used to be unconscious thoughts or feelings - Aversion, boredom or annoyance. Also easier to notice when the mind drifts into past or future and bring it back the present.

For me its a great way to get really focused on a single area which gets me into a deep state of concentration - start with wide awareness noting, then focus onto the tingling vibrations in my hands.

Its portable - noting can be done anywhere anytime, good way for me to bring mindfulness and awareness to daily life.

A good way to really focus in on an area and break it down and investigate it for what it is. For me noting keeps me focused on what arises moment to moment, then when something catches my attention like an itch I can narrow my focus on it and start noting its different quality's and thoughts or emotions about that sensation. This deepens my awareness of that sensation and seems like I am able to see more of it then I would otherwise - The itch will break down into quick pulses or vibrations.

My experience is similar to yours, johnnyzampano,
I've tried a few different kinds of meditation.
Vipassana was one of the first I learned, at the
IMS, back when noting was optional there.
I hated noting. I thought attaching words to
everything was the antithesis of meditation,
not to mention that it seemed like an arduous
discipline. But after a lot of trial
and error, it's the most effective I've found.

For a few years I had some teachers who taught
shikantaza, or choiceless awareness. That was
a valuable experience but eventually I felt
I was spending too much time spacing out.
So I snuck in some noting and was impressed.
I started wishing I had a vipassana teacher,
but they seem hard to find, compared to
Zen teachers.

Finally got a chance to go to a couple of
vipassana retreats and found DhO and was
sold. A few months later I started
working with Kenneth. It's pretty much
like starting meditation all over again
but this time with the noting and feedback
to know whether I'm doing it or not.
Reminds me of my daughter's years of
persistent violin practice.

There are also some interesting links to the cutting edge of neuroscience here as well - in 'The brain that changes itself', there are two main points in the book that stand out for me:

1. The quality of one's attention or concentration allows for faster and deeper learning to take place, and pleasure occuring at the same time can make the learning stick better as well (Jhana practice anyone?)

2. Whether two things are experienced as one or as two depends on the 'sensory map' in the brain - The map changes depending on how you experience things. So if a thought and an emotion are normally experienced at the same time, the map thinks they are one thing. I think noting can do the opposite, by forcing us to see the thinking, and the corresponding emotion, one then the other, the sensory map can alter and allow us to normally see them as two events, and not one event, all blurred together...

Pretty cool huh?

Noting rocks by the way - my background is also the more zen style open awareness, with perhaps some noting and feeling but pure noting as discussed here has let me see into some thinking/feeling cause and effect stuff that has remained out of reach for years. I had great resistance to the technique at first but now I *really* see its value! ("thought - resistance to noting; sensation - prickly pain in stomach; breathing - chest falling, sensation, nostril, etc...)

Bum-ba-ba-bum-baba-baba-BUMP!

From Mu's thread:

Some notes after a conversation with Kenneth and my recent practice experience.

1. Thought of as a physioenergetic development, perspective changes and such occur as the development matures. That being the case one needn't look for specific things, but instead one should focus on the practice that brings about the development. Good noting technique will accomplish the development and is sufficient to bring one through all 4 paths. Kenneth's wife Beth recently attained 4th path using only the noting technique.

2. Noting is a feedback mechanism, what's important is noticing. Various techniques are means of bringing about continual noticing/awareness.

3. Noting out loud seems to be the best way to achieve extraordinary levels of uninterrupted noticing (e.g. my recent 50 minute recorded session)

4. Noting will also bring you into formless realms, etc. (as occurred in the 50 minute session I mentioned previously).

"Good noting technique will accomplish the development and is sufficient to bring one through all 4 paths."

Yes, yes, a million times yes! I don't think that good noting technique can be emphasized strongly enough, it's so easy to develop bad technique without proper instruction and run in circles trying to over-complicate this. I know, I've done it myself!

How's the article coming along, Nick?

YEh, coming along still. Waiting for a dose of enthusiasm and more info.

Noting is Active Mantra Technology (tm)!

Not much to add to the above, perhaps some nuanced variations:

* Re: ping pong. Great to be able to meditate with my partner using noting. It allows us to truly 'share' the meditation experience in a way that also builds our relationship. We've also used it off the cushion: traveling in a difficult bus ride last year, we ping pong-ed quietly with each other to help keep up presence when we were tempted to just check-out mentally. Also sometimes rather than ping pong, we swap noting roles every 2 to 5 minutes of a sit.
* My cushion practice was pretty strong (body scanning / Goenka) even prior to my switch to KFD and noting. But where I really needed (and need) to grow is in practicing off the cushion. I've found silent noting fantastic for really upping my game here -- now close to a habit when walking.
* Noting is about the only practice I can successfully sustain in the morning when I first wake up and showering, etc -- anything else I space out or fall back asleep too easily.
* Noting really makes impermanence very, very clear and concrete -- not merely an abstraction. Also true when hearing another person note.
* I'm wondering if noting out loud is starting to take me to second gear, because more and more often I'm shifting to "voice witness" -- meaning I've "backed out" to where I'm distinctly aware of my voice speaking and with it the noting process itself.
* Noting certainly helps me stay on-task in more slippery Equanimity time, out loud even more than silent.
* Noting DOESN'T help me, as far as I can tell, in doing effective practice while doing my job -- because I need my logic and language centers focused fully on the task at hand. There, my best solution seems to be keeping my attention somewhere in the body.