Daniel J. practice

I'm not sure I really get the idea of these practice journals, but here is mine. I'm trying to do the noting practice that Kenneth is teaching me by phone calls. I don't really get it, but among other things, he's suggested I note "confusion, dullness, and aversion" whenever those things arise. So, I do that. I don't think I understand the practice, but then sometimes I sit, and noting starts to happen. Sometimes it doesn't. Like when I'm on the phone with Kenneth. He says "ok, let's practice a bit." And, then I start noting things. I don't really know what I'm doing, I guess I'm just trying to do the thing that he's trying to teach me. It's pretty confusing. So, I note confusion.

Well, that's my notes for now. It doesn't make much sense to me, but maybe it will make sense to you.

Welcome Daniel!

Noting did not come natural to me either. But to keep it simple: The practice is to actively and consistently note whatever you experience every single moment.
It works.

/Pejn

Hey Pejn,
i guess that seems simple to you. I really don't understand what "actively" means. And, I still don't really get what "note" means either. "consistently" and "experience" are words that make sense to me (at least I think they do).
I think the problem is more that noting comes quite naturally to me, but I don't come naturally to noting.
But, I digress.

By the way, i notice there's some personal info in some of the other threads, so this is about me: 32 years old. I "got on the ride" about age 20, so I'm about 12 years into this thing. I started intensively practicing meditation about 3 years ago now. I found the DhO and Daniel Ingram's book about a year and a half ago and have been a member of that forum for some time now. Right now, i work Saturdays and Sundays and have the middle of the week free for meditation (if nothing else is going on). I live alone in the woods too, so my lifestyle works pretty well with meditation.

Hi, Daniel!
I don't know what info you need about noting.
If you were to sit down somewhere and simply say the labels for different objects you saw, heard, smelled, etc,
it would provably sound like "cow", "sun", "cloud", "hand", "car", "rock", "wall", "house" or what have you...
This is noting.
However, when you are noting the four foundations, you are doing the same to internally perceived sensations too.
And this is, just based on the way we learn and connect language to internal events, harder...
So you may have a harder time finding the "right" words for these, but that is something to work out. I doubt anyone will give you a test on whether the word you used actually was the right one written on a stone tablet somewhere. Which doesn't mean that you shouldn't aspire to be as precise as possible.
Kenneth says "detailed noting is better" (if I remember his words correctly).

But you say noting comes easy to you, so you're probably doing it already.
Are you wondering about why we do it?

Anyways, dunno if this was any help, but thought I'd chime in and try to help.
(and I've had some hard times with noting myself BTW)

EDIT: Also, even though I myself hate not understanding how, why or what, if I understand Kenneth's teachings in this context, noting is a technique one doesnt really have to understand.
You just have to do it.
Which isn't that comforting for those of us who really want to understand what we're doing

Thanks meekan,
I appreciate your comments. I think maybe I sorta get what you're saying about not having to understand, just having to do. That seems like most things in life. I don't have to understand how to walk in order to move my body from one end of the room to the other, I can just sorta do it. However, with proper training one can learn to move their body more efficiently and skillfully, and thus one could learn to run a marathon (for example). There is undeniably some sort of learning process here (if not an understanding process). So, I'm not so much concerned with understanding, as much as learning how to do.

Also, what I said wasn't that "noting comes easy to me." although at times it has come easily to me. But, what I said is that it comes "naturally." Like in nature, sometimes it rains and sometimes it's sunny. And sometimes things are born, sometimes they die. So too, nature brings me noting, and then nature takes it away. It all comes (and goes) quite naturally. Yet it seems somehow that people here have somehow found a way to defy nature and to consistently produce noting of their own accord. Perhaps this is a misinterpretation on my part. And, this is certainly part of what confuses me.

I'm not really wondering why we do it. I'm attempting to follow the instructions (as I've also been instructed to follow the instructions). The instructions are confusing, and so I don't know what to do. Kenneth told me last to "note out loud," so I asked if maybe he could explain that to me again because I don't really know what that means.

Anyway, we'll see. I'll try to keep you posted as this practice journal progresses.

thanks again

I had written a report, but maxed out the character limit. Perhaps next time I'm online I will post it.

- Daniel

I guess I'm confused about your confusion. Could you let us know what isn't clear about it for you?

It really is pretty simple. One thing that helped me to get started was to imagine putting post-it notes on my sensations as they came up: "itching" - got it, "pressure" - got it, "coolness" - got it, etc. You don't have to get every sensation, or keep it going fast, you just have to do it consistently.

I'm not sure what the confusion was about. I think I was trying to follow the instructions and do the practice instead of being aware of the sensations that make up my moment to moment experience. This was weird because the practice is to be aware of the sensations of present moment experience, but I think I was getting lost with the noting and what not. It seems like I could be doing noting practice without being aware of sensations, etc...

At any rate, the confusion has cleared up at least enough for me to practice. I've since done two 10-day retreats and was considering journaling here again.

1/4/12
Sit: 1 hour - evening
Phenomena: Lots of pain and aversion. Pain throughout body. Pressure and irritation in throat and nose (sinus congestion). Fatigue, hard to hold body up. Crying. Hard to keep eyes closed. Hard to sit still. Restlessness and despair. More anxiety and stress toward beginning. Intermittent periods of relaxation. Breath was fast, hard and loud for most of the sit. Some periods were breath quieted down. Tension throughout body. Restless thoughts: planning, aversion, self pity, complaining, anger, hatred, etc. Extensive suffering. Haziness, confusion, doubt, Etc.
Practice: Watching breath. For a short period, intentionally slowing and calming the breath. Surfers tumble (relaxing while being tossed in the waves). Trying to stay present. Some noting throughout, with more noting toward the end as mind calmed slightly.
Self-evaluation: I think I was practicing ok. Very difficult.
Map: Dark night? Maybe reobservation?

1/5/12
Sit: 1 hour - morning
Phenomena: pain, discomfort, tingles, numbness, various vibrations. Some calm, general driftiness, spaciness. Lots of thoughts, commentaries, planning. Hazy. Some pleasant sensations, some craving. Aversion and restlessness at times. Not too difficult to sit, but opened eyes to check clock a couple times. Cold, hearing, itching, etc.
Practice: noting almost constantly throughout the hour. Some driftiness, and a few big gaps in mindfulness toward the end.
Self-evaluation: Pretty good, I think. Practice seemed to be going well when not lost in thought.
Map: Maybe low equanimity?

Daily life: Discomforts from some illness. Not much awareness through day. A few moments of noting here and there. Feeling alright. Got stuck playing computer games compulsively. I'm going to try to step up mindfulness during daily activities.

1/5/12 '“ evening
Sit: 1 hour - evening
Phenomena: pain, discomfort in throat, nose and chest (cold symptoms). Painful headache through first half of meditation which morphed and relaxed through various stages until it was almost entirely gone toward the end. Sleepiness, drifting and wandering thoughts. Stood up for a minute or two to avoid sleeping. More concentration toward the beginning, with more sleepiness toward the end. Lots of little visualizations which would take me away, followed by noticing of the images. Followed sometimes with chastising thoughts, or disappointment, etc. calm and relaxed.
Practice: noting constantly at beginning, then with gaps of drifting and sleepiness. When gaps were noticed, immediate return to noting.
Self-evaluation: Practice seemed to go well. Sleeping and drifting away was spontaneous and return to mindfulness was immediate once noticed. I'm not sure how much those gaps in awareness are bad for the practice, but they seem to happen uncontrollably, so I'm not sure how much more I could do except further resolve for more energy, and stronger mindfulness to the best of my ability.
Map: ?

1/6/12
Sit: 1 hour - morning
Phenomena: Lots of resignation, doubt, with more aversion, restlessness and confusion toward the end. Combined with very subtle awareness of shifts in sensations. Some subtle and deep tensions released. Relaxation, calm, tranquility interspersed throughout. Some pain, but not much. Lots of commentaries and commentaries about commentaries. Some drifting and wandering mind. Awareness and noting was more subtle acute and flowing. Strong awareness and lots of jumpiness of mind.
Practice: Lots of noting. At times, dropped the noting to just be aware of the sensate experience in the moment.
Self-evaluation: Not sure. Some deep, subtle and profound shifts with lots of insight. But, practice was a little haphazard.
Map: ?

1/6 '“ 1/8 - Two sits: Were interrupted by sleepiness to the extent that I just got in bed and slept. This is the weekend, and it's when I cram my work week into two days, so I don't get a lot of sleep. Daily life and at work, I brought mindfulness and noting to the forefront as much as possible. Some resistance and doubts on Saturday, with Sunday more mindful throughout the day.

1/8/12
Sit: 1 hour '“ evening
Phenomena: Sharp concentration and awareness for first five minutes or so. Enthusiasm, delight. Lots of thoughts, commentary, analysis, remembering, conversations, etc. Lots of tingles, buzzing, vibrating. Very relaxing. After five minutes, lots of sleepiness and sleep. In and out of sleep, with mind drifting into reverie on the edges of sleep for the rest of hour. Easily sat without moving for entire hour, time passed very quickly. Whenever I caught myself sleeping or lost in reverie, mindfulness was very quick to return and sharp with sensory detail.
Practice: Lots of noting while awake.
Self-evaluation: Really not sure. I'm not sure how detrimental this sleeping on the cushion is to progress. Obviously, I needed sleep, and usually I would usually just sleep, but wanted to do my scheduled hour. Some awareness on the edges of sleep develop interesting insights. Not sure what would be appropriate practice in this situation for best progress.
Map: ?

1/9/12
Sit: 1 hour '“ morning
Phenomena: Plethora of sensations. Lots of thoughts, body sensations. Mostly calm. Lots of aversion. Confusion. Many sensations of background and foreground yielding interesting experiences of selflessness, and lots of insights. Mind wandered quite a bit.
Practice: Intermittent noting. Noting was difficult and not working well with the sensations, so instead, much of the time was more of a mindfulness smear, with acute awareness of sensations and occasional notes here and there.
Self-evaluation: Totally clueless. Wasn't really sure what to do, but also thinking that maybe it was doing itself. Drawing a blank.
Map: ? and more ?

1/9/12
Sit/Lie: 1 hour '“ evening
Phenomena: Intense pain. I could say: headache from staring at a computer screen, stomach ache from eating a big meal, soreness through the rest of body from lifting weights. Or, then again, maybe it was all just sankharas. At any rate, lots of intense pain. Felt fluttering in chest. Seemed close to dying. Very intense, and commanded attention. After 20 minutes, I used all my willpower to get off the cushion and lie down for the remainder. Some mind wandering at times, and intermittent commentaries, often with a theme of grandiosity about the intensity of the pain, or other mental commentaries.
Practice: Lots of noting and fairly strong mindfulness for first 20 minutes. Noting was intermittent throughout the rest of the sit.
Self-evaluation: I'm not sure. I think it went ok.
Map: ? dunno

1/10/12
Sit: 1 hour '“ morning
Phenomena: Another plethora. Lots of confusion, 'unknown' and 'stuff.' Calm throughout. Peace, quiet. Usual body sensations: tingles, brief pains, tensions, itches, cold, warm, hearing, etc. Some moments of pleasure. Some moments of sadness, sorrow and aversion as well. Lots of thoughts and wandering mind continue '“ anticipation, evaluation, planning, etc. Unknown sensations. Sat the entire hour without difficulty.
Practice: Noting at times, especially when mind became more dull for moments. But, also much of the time, noting seemed too harsh or impossible or too slow or something, so I went with more of a 'noticing' practice for some of the period.... just quietly noticing what was happening physically and mentally. Lots of 'dropping away' and quieting, leading to a sort of 'inclusive synchronizing' practice (ala Daniel Ingram's instructions)
Self-evaluation: I'm still not sure. I think the practice is going well, but have doubts, especially because it doesn't seem to match up with what other people report.
Map: I'd guess this was the equanimity nyana... mostly because of the pervasive ok-ness throughout the entire sit. Then again, maybe not.

I just read through the Antero practice journal on KFD, as he worked his way to stream entry. It's fascinating. I don't understand most of it and it seems very advanced (jhanas, etc.). Just from reading his report, I would predict that it would take me a few more years to work up to the level he was at when he first started Vipassana. If that is any indication of my own progress, it seems that I am a long way from stream entry. But, then again, I could be wrong.

What interests me most about his thread is the comments from people saying 'good work,' as though he is doing something. If he is doing some work, I'm not aware of what he's doing. I wish I knew what the work was that he was doing so that I could do it too. From my perspective it looks like he had a natural talent for meditative attainments. Am I missing something?

1/10/12
Sit: 1 hour '“ morning #2
Phenomena: Mind wandered, return to breath. Repeat. Breath was relatively quiet, and mind somewhat calm for most of the sit. I had to change postures a bunch because the pain of sitting was distracting from the breath.
Practice: After reading some comments in the Antero thread (note above) I decided to devote an hour to concentration practice using the breath. So, the mind wandered and whatnot, and then I would bring it back to the breath, and try to devote 100% of my attention to the breath. I'd say altogether it was about 60% attention on the breath and 40% wandering, with some moments of 100% on the breath, and a few moments of 0% awareness of the breath.
Self-evaluation: I think I was doing the practice according to the instructions.
Map: I'd guess that I wasn't in any jhanas, but I could be wrong.

report from my last 10-day sit:
bhavanatraveler.blogspot.com/2012/01/cus...istmas-in-woods.html

1/10/12
Sit: 1 hour '“ evening
Phenomena: Strong enthusiasm and excitement for first ten minutes or so - which rather surprisingly turned out to be composed of impermanent, selfless, empty sensations. Go figure. Lots of tingling, and some energetic type buzzing during second half. Seeing thoughts arise and dissolve as subtle movements of sensation. Some sensations of observer, watching, sense of self, self image. Inclusive and panoramic noticing for much of the sit. It became clear that there was some subtle something related to the mindwandering that still hadn't been seen. Then, it was seen more, but not clearly enough to be able to describe what it was. Last ten minutes or so were marked with more pain and sleepiness and loss of concentration.
Practice: After a few minutes of noting, I decided to just go with noticing practice. For a moment, there was a fear to let go of the noting (because I want to cling to it so badly because it represents my ticket out of misery) but I just decided to have some faith that things were somehow working out ok and to just go with discrete awareness of the present moment without anything else.
Self-evaluation: I think I was practicing pretty well. Still, there were lots of gaps in attention, and I'm not sure if that's a sign of poor practice or what.
Map: I'd be pretty willing to peg this one as equanimity.

1/11/12
Sit: 1 hour '“ morning
Phenomena: sharp concentration at beginning. Noticing thoughts and thought fragments with ease and no-stickiness. Lots of insights. Calming, relaxing. Greater inclusivity. Body sensations throughout. Some sense of watcher, self. Some drifting mindwandering in the middle, and haziness and confusion. Concentration weakened. Still insights, still noticing body sensations, mental sensations, mindstates of many varieties. Toward the end, a shift with more aversion, and pain as nearing the hour. Shifted sitting position. Still, dullness, wandering and aversion toward the end.
Practice: Lots of noting throughout. Some moments of getting lost in thought. At one point, there was a relaxing and letting go of the reigns (so to speak) which is still difficult and confusing to me. But, as soon as I decided to relax the practice a little, I noticed a very widespread tension pattern that was in the background and I had never noticed before which was a sort of straining to do something. Still refining the (confusing) balance of effort and relaxation/letting it happen.
Self-evaluation: I think it was definitely solid practice in the beginning, very sharp attention and full concentration. I think the rest was pretty good too, but not sure.
Map: still EQ?

Today during the day, I got very angry with someone and shouted at them. Good incentive to keep practicing.

1/11/12
Sit: 50 minutes '“ afternoon
Phenomena: Lots of thoughts about the above situation (getting angry). Evaluation thoughts, planning, lectures, discussions, analysis, etc. Reflecting, remorse, sadness, disappointment, more anger. Some pain in body, back, legs. Some calm as well, happiness and equanimity. Lots of tingling, buzzing, especially in the face. Thoughts about other things too.
Practice: Fairly strong noting. Some story spinning. This sit was a great reminder that: it really doesn't matter what the sensations are... just keep noting them. Somehow, I was able to plow right through the sensations fairly well and just keep noting... it's all just sensations, arising and passing. Different phenomena, 'arising, staying for some time, but ultimately passing away' (Goenka quote).
Self-evaluation: Seemed like good practice for the most part. I would like more of that. Still some time was spent in storyland.
Map: dunno

1/12/12
Sit: 1 hour - morning
Phenomena: Some anxiety and restlessness in the beginning. Then, dropped into very calm and quiet after a few minutes. Tingling, buzzing type sensations throughout body, simple awareness noticing things drop away. Then, another run of thoughts, planning, speculation, etc.. with more restlessness, and then another chill out drop into quiet and calm. This continued most of the sit. Some thought fragments, energetic movement, body sensations. Toward end of sit, more pain from sitting, aversion, restlessness, future-based thoughts. Deeply relaxed contentment at one point. Then, mind wandered for the last minute or two until the alarm sounded.
Practice: Noting at first, then quiet observing. Then back to noting at times, mostly when mind became more agitated again.
Self-evaluation: I think that was pretty good practice. Lots of insights '“ mostly seeing emptiness of thoughts.
Map: I guess this is still equanimity.

1/12/12
Sit: 1 hour '“ evening
Phenomena: Jumbly and different. Lots of time spent lost in thought. Lots of excitement, agitation, craving, restlessness, fidgety mind and fidgety body. Fast shifting and somewhat spastic thoughts moods, and mental movements. Shifted postures a number of times. Some thick sensations in body and weird tensions in chest, solar plexus, head. Some feelings of dissolving and breaking apart, scattered. Discomfort, pain, some aversion. Resistence, disinterest. Compulsion. Last ten minutes, comfort, calm and sleepiness.
Practice: Noting diligently when I remembered to. Some periods of quiet observing, but mostly noting.
Self-evaluation: Good.
Map: dipping back into dark night?

1/13/12
Sit: 1 hour '“ morning
Phenomena: Still 'different.' Surprising. Confusion, uncertainty. Lots of body sensations, tingles, waves of vibration, etc. Whole body, torso, etc. Some worry, anxiety toward the beginning, planning thoughts, future thoughts, cravings, desire. Doubt. Anxiety about the practice, and wanting to be somewhere else, etc. More confusion. Jumping from thought to thought. A good deal of pain, discomfort, irritation. More pain toward end, shifted postures and stretched the body out a bit. Lots of little mental detours of thoughts, but no full-blown daydreaming. And more confusion and uncertainty.
Practice: Noting throughout, with some detail. Not very fast noting, but consistent. Very much 'starting again' in each moment. Just each moment again, noticing and noting. Not really knowing why I'm doing it, but doing it anyway. Commitment to scheduled sit was important.
Self-evaluation: Consistent, but maybe still a little slow/lazy?
Map: Default answer is 'I don't know'