Tommy's Journal - Season 2

I don't quite understand your line of questioning here?

You don't seem to agree with the definitions being used on here so why not just voice your concerns and we can talk about it properly. As I said, I'm not a Buddhist and I make no secret of my lack of knowledge when it comes to Buddhist teachings and knowledge of the suttas so hopefully you can understand that I am not the person to talk to if you want to get into classical definitions or dogma. I practice the Buddhist techniques of vipassana and samatha, I'm more interested in the practical application of spiritual technologies which help people to wake up. I've walked a strange and complicated path with this stuff and seen enough weirdness to know that a belief system is just a belief system, reality is very accommodating when it comes to looking for proof of your own beliefs. Fruition, the complete cessation of all experience, is the exception to the rule in my experience.

As for 'Rigpa', I was under the impression that this is dwelling in non-dual awareness as taught within dzogchen? I wouldn't describe it as "weird". You'd need to ask Kenneth to comment on his own writing, I can only speak for myself.

What's your view of this whole thing then?

"I don't quite understand your line of questioning here?
"

sorry tommy!

i will explain my self better:
you said you solved your problem, and i saw this is exactly the same way Folk speaks of his experience.
but, what you are equating with "solved your problem" is not the same as what Folk is equating with that.
he wrote that after 4th path, he had to practice a lot, go through more development, and only now he is saying he solved his problem.
so, perhaps you still have a problem, see what i mean?

if you are practicing vipassana/samatha, the buddhist framework, the 'problem' as explained in that framework, is the mental defilements, kilesas, asavas, so if infact these are still arising, therefore, problem is not solved, and a blind man cannot lead another blind man, see?

No need for apologies, and thanks for taking the time to explain that more.

I can only speak for myself based on my own experience, you seem to have misunderstood what I've posted as being the same as what Kenneth talks about in his own life. That's incorrect.
Also, where exactly did you get the impression that I'm trying to lead anyone, blind or otherwise?

hello again, thank you for answering me.

here i read you wrote this:
"I've solved "my" problem, now I'm interested in helping others which is part of the reason why I'm exploring different traditions"

so i thought first, if kilesas are arising in the mind (as a getting pissed off, or angry, and more kilesas are listed in the suttas), therefore the problem is not solved according to the framework you are using (Vipassana).

and then, you wrote that you would like to help others solve the problem.

so the point i was making was: i think you still have a problem, and therefore, cannot help others solve the problem since you still have it.

also, do you suspect that perhaps when you stop taking ssri, the problem will be perhaps slightly worse than it is now? (with ssri making difficult emotions better to handle, without, its more difficult to not express those and harm others in the process)

This discussion is just going to go around in circles.

I do not follow any one tradition, am I making this clear enough?
I'm not a teacher, and have never claimed to be and have no intention of ever being one.
Whether or not you think I still have a problem is not your concern.
What happens when I take, or don't take SSRI's is not your concern.
Let's just end it here shall we, it's a waste of both our time as we're never going to resolve this.

Hi James,

This forum is a place to openly share the direct experience of meditation and awakening and to ask sincere questions in hopes of gaining further insight into your own practice. If you would like to join in, I invite you to begin by posting your own practice thread detailing your practice and a little background so we are all on an equal footing.

Welcome to the forum,

Kenneth

"The main thing about that entire debacle which angered me was the influx of fundamentalist AF'ers rubbishing what we choose to do rather than keeping their f*cking noses out and getting on with their own lives."

Hehe, sorry if I came across as interfering with the practices of others. My intention wasn't to poo-poo what other people did. I agree that people should make their own decisions, I just also feel that people should make them based on accurate info, though I suppose if people don't try to find out for themselves then they've already made their decision in a way. Don't worry, though, it's clear debate about AF isn't welcome here and will be cut short when it gets to any real issue (the one in that thread being feeling compassion and thus being compassionate vs. being compassionate without feeling compassion), so hopefully the next time it crops up here I'll have the presence of mind to refrain from joining the conversation.

I wonder if debate would be welcome regarding the difference between feeling arrogant and consequently being arrogant vs. being arrogant without feeling arrogant?

"I wonder if debate would be welcome regarding the difference between feeling arrogant and consequently being arrogant vs. being arrogant without feeling arrogant?" -tazmic

LOL. Thanks, Tazmic, I got a really hearty laugh out of this, especially because I couldn't tell which arrogant person you might be referring to. In other words, there are so many good candidates here, myself included. Hell, you can't swing a cat around here without hitting someone who is arrogant.

LOL. Still laughing with delight...

Had a great argument with Daniel Ingram today in which we excoriated each other for, among other things, being arrogant.

Noting: amusement, gratitude, joy, surrender, well-being, equanimity, acceptance, joy.

"Hell, you can't swing a cat around here without hitting someone who is arrogant. "

hehe for sure. freeing yourself from suffering is such a personal issue that hits so close to home (even as that 'home' recedes further and further and becomes more and more subtle), it's no wonder debate about it sparks such intense reactions, myself included =P. good dose of humor and lightheartedness helps.

---

CLAUDIU! Dude, I apologize if you took my comment to be referring to you or any of the others who were discussing things in a reasonable way. I said this to Nick too, I was talking about the influx of newcomers who were clearly only there to praise AF while denigrating what others choose to do. I know the same argument can be leveled against both sides of the proverbial fence here, I'm not interested in who's right or wrong and people are free to make their own choices.

Tazmic - If you want to post a thread on this topic then please do so as it'd be interesting to see what comes of it, but please refrain from doing so in this practice thread.

On that note, I'm going to start a new practice thread as the flow of this whole thing has been disrupted over the last few days. The conversation with "James" the other day was incredibly frustrating, it was clear that the guy had got the impression that I was talking about teaching people and also appeared to be convinced that I am unqualified to do so due to "my problem". I make no secret of my use of SSRI's but I won't have that thrown back in my face, I talk openly about this to encourage others in a similar situation to go for it too and I think that yogis who deal with mental illnesses should speak out more as it seems like people have this expectation that enlightened people aren't still subject to biology and neuro-chemisty.

Anyhow, let me end this thread by saying that I wish everyone, everywhere, whatever they're doing, the very best with their chosen paths.

Peace Out
- Tommy

I look forward to getting regular updates on your practice, Tommy. And thank you for being frank about your meds; it's given me encouragement to do the same. Metta, Laurel

Sh*t. I got a PM from Stephen there and I just realized that I had said his name in my last post instead of James. Stephen, my sincere apologies for the mistake and I most certainly do NOT think you're the same guy. That was just a f*ck up by me there, sorry for any offence caused.

It is unfortunate that someone would misuse information from a practice thread in order to raise criticism here. It's clear to me that even if we set aside issues of attainment or medications, that many people who read these case studies and practice threads can learn a lot from them.

They encourage and inspire people to keep practicing regularly, because they can get a picture of the results being shared by others. In addition, we can learn valuable guidance for our own practice just from the clarity and detail of more experienced practitioners journals.

Not to mention that there was clearly a misapprehension that a practice journal was somehow inferring one considers oneself a teacher. It's funny how the honesty that seems to come from legit practice can be distorted and seen in the wrong light by someone who may not have practiced much themselves. Our own issues may be seen much more clearly, and we may be much more honest about them.. but that doesn't mean we are unfit to share our knowledge and experiences.

In short, Tommy please keep sharing your practice with us here, and try not to let criticisms discourage you. You are doing the right thing, an important service, for one by letting those who may take meds for depression at some point know they are not exempt from enlightenment, as well as sharing valuable insight for less experienced yogis to learn from.

metta!!

Justin

"It is unfortunate that someone would misuse information from a practice thread in order to raise criticism here..."

"Tommy please keep sharing your practice with us here, and try not to let criticisms discourage you. You are doing the right thing, an important service, for one by letting those who may take meds for depression at some point know they are not exempt from enlightenment, as well as sharing valuable insight for less experienced yogis to learn from." -Malt (Justin)

Thank you for expressing this so clearly, Justin. I agree.

My own struggle with major depression, including five years of both SSRIs and anxiety medication, was what motivated me to practice in the first place and kept me at it through some very dark years; I sensed that there was something wrong with the way my mind was operating and I sensed that my meditation practice would help me get to the root of it. That hunch proved to be correct when in 2004, 22 years after my first opening, my depression vanished. It is because of this experience of overcoming depression that I have dedicated my life to helping others achieve the happiness that is independent of conditions.

I don't know if enlightenment will cure everyone's depression. But I think it's the best chance we have.

May all beings be happy and free from sorrow,

Kenneth