Pointers to the ineffable
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #80461
by APrioriKreuz
Pointers to the ineffable was created by APrioriKreuz
The following statements are pointers to Buddha Nature, Rigpa, Primordial Awereness, etc. They're all meant to give you a hint of the Mahamudra, Dzogchen, Shikantaza, 3rd gear, union of Shamatha and Vipassana views. Some are Kenneth's, some are mine, other's are just variants from old tibetan scriptures.
Since that way of abiding is ineffable, none of the statements are the actual way of abiding. They are just gestures, suggestions, metaphors, etc., not to be taken literally.
Beginners: I strongly recommend mastering Kenneth's 1st and 2nd gear, satipatthana, or similar preliminaries. Nothing wrong with entering these views right now, but one can easily be fooled by the mind if foundations aren't present. Moreover, pure intention is essential (right intention, right speech, right, action, bodhicitta, selfless attitudes, sharing and dedicating the merit, etc.) Embedding in self benefit eclipses and distorts Buddha Nature.
Here are the sentences:
- I don't know anything I know.
- Nothing wrong or right with anything, anyone.
- Your belongings (including your body) weren't, aren't and will not be yours. Ever.
- Kenneth's metaphors: lightning rod, paying the toll, listening for the ships in the harbor.
- In genuine being, nothing needs to be done.
- Its never just about "me", nor just "them".
- "This moment is as it is, with or without your participation."
- Do what what this moment requires right now (work, clean, eat, drive, rest, answer).
Please add your own pointers, feedback, views, etc.
Since that way of abiding is ineffable, none of the statements are the actual way of abiding. They are just gestures, suggestions, metaphors, etc., not to be taken literally.
Beginners: I strongly recommend mastering Kenneth's 1st and 2nd gear, satipatthana, or similar preliminaries. Nothing wrong with entering these views right now, but one can easily be fooled by the mind if foundations aren't present. Moreover, pure intention is essential (right intention, right speech, right, action, bodhicitta, selfless attitudes, sharing and dedicating the merit, etc.) Embedding in self benefit eclipses and distorts Buddha Nature.
Here are the sentences:
- I don't know anything I know.
- Nothing wrong or right with anything, anyone.
- Your belongings (including your body) weren't, aren't and will not be yours. Ever.
- Kenneth's metaphors: lightning rod, paying the toll, listening for the ships in the harbor.
- In genuine being, nothing needs to be done.
- Its never just about "me", nor just "them".
- "This moment is as it is, with or without your participation."
- Do what what this moment requires right now (work, clean, eat, drive, rest, answer).
Please add your own pointers, feedback, views, etc.
- villum
- Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #80462
by villum
I am a beginner, but this one seems to work somewhat for me:
- As mostly single process/gesture: Let go of the differences between things, let go of holding anything as special, let yourself fall in the direction of that which all things have in common.
- from Kenneth: What doesn't hurt?
Replied by villum on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
I am a beginner, but this one seems to work somewhat for me:
- As mostly single process/gesture: Let go of the differences between things, let go of holding anything as special, let yourself fall in the direction of that which all things have in common.
- from Kenneth: What doesn't hurt?
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 5 months ago #80463
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
"
I am a beginner"
- Always a beginner
***Suzuki's
I am a beginner"
- Always a beginner
***Suzuki's
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80464
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
"Don't do anything"
*notices trying not to do anything*
Stop trying
Repeat
*notices trying not to do anything*
Stop trying
Repeat
- awouldbehipster
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80465
by awouldbehipster
Replied by awouldbehipster on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
For those heady, intellectual types (like me), this one seems to help...
"Nothing needs to be figured out."
"Nothing needs to be figured out."
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80466
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
Excellent Jackson. I've been using it since you posted it along with other pointers such as "relax", "do nothing" and "look."
Definitely a worthwhile practice.
Definitely a worthwhile practice.
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80467
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
"For those heady, intellectual types (like me), this one seems to help...
"Nothing needs to be figured out.""
Love it!
I saw this on twitter the other day:
RT @the_eco_thought Samsara means waiting for something to happen (Trungpa Rinpoche)
"Nothing needs to be figured out.""
Love it!
I saw this on twitter the other day:
RT @the_eco_thought Samsara means waiting for something to happen (Trungpa Rinpoche)
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80468
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
- No one's eyes, ears, bones, muscles, skin, nose, etc.
- No one's mind.
- No one's mind.
- villum
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80469
by villum
-Rest in the space between things being noticed
Replied by villum on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
-Rest in the space between things being noticed
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80470
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
"
-Rest in the space between things being noticed"
- Rest in right action
- Rest in right intention
- Rest in right concentration
- Rest in right speech
- Etc.
Key word: rest.
-Rest in the space between things being noticed"
- Rest in right action
- Rest in right intention
- Rest in right concentration
- Rest in right speech
- Etc.
Key word: rest.
- villum
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80471
by villum
Replied by villum on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
"Key word: rest."
The connection to the Noble Eightfold Path has been useful too, however.
- (Rest,) There is only Buddha
- (Relax, ) Even that, right there, is Buddha
The connection to the Noble Eightfold Path has been useful too, however.
- (Rest,) There is only Buddha
- (Relax, ) Even that, right there, is Buddha
- orasis
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80472
by orasis
Replied by orasis on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
Notice that most of these have to do with letting go of something or removing something. *doing* something will often lead to an interesting non-dual state such as unity or clear timelessness, but it is the removal process that exposes the purity of the moment.
My 3rd gear practice was scaffolded by first finding a door or entry way into a non-dual *state*. I think I would have had an impossible time finding the "surrender room" without being pointed at the door.
I think it might be useful to also point at doors that will bring about a *state* from which non-dual qualities can be seen and that can further ripen into directly accessing a more restful place.
My 3rd gear practice was scaffolded by first finding a door or entry way into a non-dual *state*. I think I would have had an impossible time finding the "surrender room" without being pointed at the door.
I think it might be useful to also point at doors that will bring about a *state* from which non-dual qualities can be seen and that can further ripen into directly accessing a more restful place.
- orasis
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80473
by orasis
Replied by orasis on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
This is pure conjecture, so please say so if you disagree, but pointers to a *door* rather than the space itself might include:
- Focus intensely on Nowness
- Recognize the moment that attention shifts and notice Awareness in that gap. This is the moment when sitting when you go from being lost in thought to noticing that you were lost
- Listen for the ships in the Harbor
(Is "Who Am I?" another door?)
By going through these doors, I initially had significant distortion and compounding but it seems that the obscuring factors are seen more clearly with time and further surrender.
Any more doors that you guys know of?
- Focus intensely on Nowness
- Recognize the moment that attention shifts and notice Awareness in that gap. This is the moment when sitting when you go from being lost in thought to noticing that you were lost
- Listen for the ships in the Harbor
(Is "Who Am I?" another door?)
By going through these doors, I initially had significant distortion and compounding but it seems that the obscuring factors are seen more clearly with time and further surrender.
Any more doors that you guys know of?
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80474
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
"Notice that most of these have to do with letting go of something or removing something. *doing* something will often lead to an interesting non-dual state such as unity or clear timelessness, but it is the removal process that exposes the purity of the moment."
When you say "non-dual state", do you mean samadhi, jhana, calm abiding?
When you say "non-dual state", do you mean samadhi, jhana, calm abiding?
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80475
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
" *doing* something will often lead to an interesting non-dual state such as unity or clear timelessness"
"Doing" practices, in my opinion, are useful when dual tendencies run the show. For example, in the vajrayana tradition, one "takes refuge" or "gives rise to bodhicitta" many times, in oder to cultivate right view.
Taking refuge (surrendering to the buddha, dharma, sangha) leads to unity, non-dual etc. Bodhicitta refers to selfless compassionate action, so if its selfless, it has to be non-dual. These "doing" practices might be the "doors" you describe.
After surrendering many times, after acquiring the selfless view through bodhicitta cultivation, then the non-dual state becomes sort of permanent. This is the support to recognize pure space.
One then discovers that "surrendering" or "giving rise to selfless compassionate action" was all part of the illusion. But some of us need to go through illusory practices. Our distraction with phenomena is strong. One needs to see these illusory doors you mention, go through illusory doors and enter illusory non-dual states.
While doing all this one could feel illusory: "my doing is ilusory", "my going through doors is ilusory", etc. After that, letting go practices make more sense.
"Doing" practices, in my opinion, are useful when dual tendencies run the show. For example, in the vajrayana tradition, one "takes refuge" or "gives rise to bodhicitta" many times, in oder to cultivate right view.
Taking refuge (surrendering to the buddha, dharma, sangha) leads to unity, non-dual etc. Bodhicitta refers to selfless compassionate action, so if its selfless, it has to be non-dual. These "doing" practices might be the "doors" you describe.
After surrendering many times, after acquiring the selfless view through bodhicitta cultivation, then the non-dual state becomes sort of permanent. This is the support to recognize pure space.
One then discovers that "surrendering" or "giving rise to selfless compassionate action" was all part of the illusion. But some of us need to go through illusory practices. Our distraction with phenomena is strong. One needs to see these illusory doors you mention, go through illusory doors and enter illusory non-dual states.
While doing all this one could feel illusory: "my doing is ilusory", "my going through doors is ilusory", etc. After that, letting go practices make more sense.
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80476
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
""Don't do anything"
*notices trying not to do anything*
Stop trying
Repeat"
- Let "doing" run out of gas
*notices trying not to do anything*
Stop trying
Repeat"
- Let "doing" run out of gas
- orasis
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80477
by orasis
Replied by orasis on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
Another kind of weird one that I haven't totally figured out:
Feel everything in the body simultaneously, really tune into absolutely everything that can be felt in the body. Now extend and *feel* everything that is happening outside of the body simultaneously with feeling everything inside the body.
For me, this one is a weird one that has a lot of weird state associated with it, but I find from there I can also let go a bit and normal 3rd gear is there.
Feel everything in the body simultaneously, really tune into absolutely everything that can be felt in the body. Now extend and *feel* everything that is happening outside of the body simultaneously with feeling everything inside the body.
For me, this one is a weird one that has a lot of weird state associated with it, but I find from there I can also let go a bit and normal 3rd gear is there.
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80478
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
"Another kind of weird one that I haven't totally figured out:
Feel everything in the body simultaneously, really tune into absolutely everything that can be felt in the body. Now extend and *feel* everything that is happening outside of the body simultaneously with feeling everything inside the body.
For me, this one is a weird one that has a lot of weird state associated with it, but I find from there I can also let go a bit and normal 3rd gear is there."
After being aware of "inside" and "outside, simultaneously, after inside-outside duality disappears, mix awareness with willingness:
- Willingness to disappear
- Willingness to help anyone
- Willingness to do whatever needs to be done right now
Feel everything in the body simultaneously, really tune into absolutely everything that can be felt in the body. Now extend and *feel* everything that is happening outside of the body simultaneously with feeling everything inside the body.
For me, this one is a weird one that has a lot of weird state associated with it, but I find from there I can also let go a bit and normal 3rd gear is there."
After being aware of "inside" and "outside, simultaneously, after inside-outside duality disappears, mix awareness with willingness:
- Willingness to disappear
- Willingness to help anyone
- Willingness to do whatever needs to be done right now
- eden212
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80479
by eden212
Replied by eden212 on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
relax, this is it
- villum
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80480
by villum
Just found that this helps taking the last non-existent step
- You don't have to be sure
Replied by villum on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
Just found that this helps taking the last non-existent step
- You don't have to be sure
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80481
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
"
Just found that this helps taking the last non-existent step
- You don't have to be sure"
Ah yes, I love this one. I keep forgetting to let go the urge to be sure, urge to witness, urge to be certain. It is the perfect way to trust the whole thing. Obtain full confidence.
Just found that this helps taking the last non-existent step
- You don't have to be sure"
Ah yes, I love this one. I keep forgetting to let go the urge to be sure, urge to witness, urge to be certain. It is the perfect way to trust the whole thing. Obtain full confidence.
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80482
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
Some variations of Kenneth's "Listen to the ships in the harbor", and Karmapa's prayer:
- Effortlessly listen to the sounds that cannot be heard.
- Sense the sensations that cannot be sensed.
- Taste the flavours that cannot be tasted.
- Smell the fragance that cannot be smelled
- Be aware of the mind that cannot be discerned.
- See the colours that cannot be seen.
- Effortlessly listen to the sounds that cannot be heard.
- Sense the sensations that cannot be sensed.
- Taste the flavours that cannot be tasted.
- Smell the fragance that cannot be smelled
- Be aware of the mind that cannot be discerned.
- See the colours that cannot be seen.
- villum
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80483
by villum
Ooh, those are nice too. But the looseness/effortlessness is important, at least for me. It is an allowing-to-happen, not a doing-something.
Replied by villum on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
Ooh, those are nice too. But the looseness/effortlessness is important, at least for me. It is an allowing-to-happen, not a doing-something.
- APrioriKreuz
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80484
by APrioriKreuz
Replied by APrioriKreuz on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
Yes, "effortlessly" should go at the beginning of each of the previous sentences
- orasis
- Topic Author
14 years 4 months ago #80485
by orasis
Replied by orasis on topic RE: Pointers to the ineffable
As a variation:
Listen for the sounds between the sounds (or the gap between the sounds)
Taste the...
Feel the...
Listen for the sounds between the sounds (or the gap between the sounds)
Taste the...
Feel the...
