Pointers to the ineffable

This one may only work for me, but i was inspired by what Nick wrote about his new state, and it seems to serve as a pointer.
- (Effortlessly) stand aside and let the universe experience itself.

@orasis "Gap" is a very ineffable word. Its perfect.

@villum Where did he write about his new state? Beautiful phrase, it works really well for me too.

"@villum Where did he write about his new state? Beautiful phrase, it works really well for me too.


"

kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.com/thread/41...C+Part+II?offset=540 - post 542

"Something here bothering you? Stop creating it already!" via one of my contacts in Twitter

My favorite is:

Monk: "Where can I enter Zen?"
Master: "Can you hear the babbling brook?"
Monk: "Yes, I can hear it."
Master: "Then enter there."
Monk: "What would you have said could I not hear the brook?"
Master: "Then enter there."

"My favorite is:

Monk: "Where can I enter Zen?"
Master: "Can you hear the babbling brook?"
Monk: "Yes, I can hear it."
Master: "Then enter there."
Monk: "What would you have said could I not hear the brook?"
Master: "Then enter there."
"

Very, very cool

@Priori - in your first post on this thread you mentioned that these pointers may not be useful for beginners. Do you think that is always true? It's interesting to compare the discussion here and the discussion on a thread like "Stream Entry Poll" where people are talking about what kind of technique and hours they are or have put in. I'm not saying I disagree with you, because I do think it's pretty hard to find these pointers relevant when one has not at least had some brief glimpses of "the ineffable". But I wonder if some of the elements of these pointers (such as effortlessness, non-doing) are applicable where early stage practitioners are struggling with concepts like surrender, acceptance, letting go and so on? Thoughts?

"@Priori - in your first post on this thread you mentioned that these pointers may not be useful for beginners. Do you think that is always true? It's interesting to compare the discussion here and the discussion on a thread like "Stream Entry Poll" where people are talking about what kind of technique and hours they are or have put in. I'm not saying I disagree with you, because I do think it's pretty hard to find these pointers relevant when one has not at least had some brief glimpses of "the ineffable". But I wonder if some of the elements of these pointers (such as effortlessness, non-doing) are applicable where early stage practitioners are struggling with concepts like surrender, acceptance, letting go and so on? Thoughts?"

@Gira On the contrary, I do think they're useful for beginners as well. All I'm saying is that one should continue mastering mindfulness and the brahmaviharas, right after having a shift due to the use of pointers. In my experience, when the pointers "click", they have such a profound (yet very subtle) and wonderful effect, that sometimes we believe we need to do less work when in fact our clinging habits are still there.

Its like reading a dzogchen or mahamudra text: just by reading a few verses we might leap to a more awakened state and believe we dont need to work more. But sooner or later our tendencies take over and hide in very subtle "layers" of awareness.

On the other hand, if mindfulness and, say, metta, are firmly established, then our minds advance without clinging to the pleasant sensations one experiences when having profound shifts.

Does this make sense?

Yes, it does.

I almost forgot, I carried this around in my pocket for over ten years:

Please listen, and you will do naturally, without effort, what is essential. Desire is thought; desire forges the chain of memory. Desire is effort, the action of will. Accumulation is the way of desire; to accumulate is to continue. Gathering experience knowledge, power or things, makes for continuity and to deny these is to continue negatively. positive and negative continuance are similar. The gathering centre is desire, the desire for the more or the less. This centre is the self, placed at different levels according to one's conditioning. Any activity of this centre only brings about the further continuity of itself. Any movement is time-binding; it prevents creation. The timeless is not with the time-binding quality of memory. The limitless is not to be measured by memory, by experience. There is the unnameable only when experience, knowledge, has wholly ceased. Truth alone frees the mind from its own bondage.

~Krishnamurti