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Insufficient Conceptual Motivation
- orasis
- Topic Author
14 years 2 months ago #83029
by orasis
Replied by orasis on topic RE: Insufficient Conceptual Motivation
I'm going to try to wrap a little bow on this thread.
It seems that if conceptual motivation is there, it can be wonderful tool to make progress - "I am so full of anxiety" "I want to be a better parent" "I want to discover the meaning of life" "I just want to be happy".
As progress is made, these goals will more or less be met or simply seen as non-issues. Then what do you do? At this point, creating new "meaning" seems unlikely and probably painful because it is just the self trying to identify with another concept.
Most likely the only direction to go is toward wisdom, whether its surrendering to the process, cutting through concepts with "I don't know", or delighting in the Mystery - basically anything that doesn't bring you one step back toward more identification.
EDIT: (Bodhicitta and faith might be two hacks to overcome this)
It seems that if conceptual motivation is there, it can be wonderful tool to make progress - "I am so full of anxiety" "I want to be a better parent" "I want to discover the meaning of life" "I just want to be happy".
As progress is made, these goals will more or less be met or simply seen as non-issues. Then what do you do? At this point, creating new "meaning" seems unlikely and probably painful because it is just the self trying to identify with another concept.
Most likely the only direction to go is toward wisdom, whether its surrendering to the process, cutting through concepts with "I don't know", or delighting in the Mystery - basically anything that doesn't bring you one step back toward more identification.
EDIT: (Bodhicitta and faith might be two hacks to overcome this)
- beoman
- Topic Author
14 years 2 months ago #83030
by beoman
Replied by beoman on topic RE: Insufficient Conceptual Motivation
"As progress is made, these goals will more or less be met or simply seen as non-issues. Then what do you do? At this point, creating new "meaning" seems unlikely and probably painful because it is just the self trying to identify with another concept."
Yes, right! At some point, it seems that the path itself is seen as unsatisfactory, as painful... all the motivation that got us to where we are is just a mass of suffering. So, one has to be motivated to look at the motivation itself - to look at the 'me' that we have been implicitly doing this for - and dismantle even _that_.
Thanissaro: "There will come the point where you ask yourself is it worth. As long as the path hasn't been fully developed, yes it is worth it. But as these factors get more and more developed you begin to realize this is as far as fabrication can take you. And you begin to lose your taste. You're feeding on these fabrications, that is where dispassion comes in. You lose your passion for fabricating and because you lose that passion, the process of fabrication begins to fall apart because after all it did depend on factors coming out of the mind, the mind's hunger for these things, its thirst for these things.
When it's no longer hungry or thirsty, it just stops. And when it stops, everything else stops. That is where you let go of everything, even the path, even the discernment that got you there."
( thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2011/10/aim-high.html )
So - whence the motivation to just stop? I guess when you're sufficiently fed up with everything =).
Yes, right! At some point, it seems that the path itself is seen as unsatisfactory, as painful... all the motivation that got us to where we are is just a mass of suffering. So, one has to be motivated to look at the motivation itself - to look at the 'me' that we have been implicitly doing this for - and dismantle even _that_.
Thanissaro: "There will come the point where you ask yourself is it worth. As long as the path hasn't been fully developed, yes it is worth it. But as these factors get more and more developed you begin to realize this is as far as fabrication can take you. And you begin to lose your taste. You're feeding on these fabrications, that is where dispassion comes in. You lose your passion for fabricating and because you lose that passion, the process of fabrication begins to fall apart because after all it did depend on factors coming out of the mind, the mind's hunger for these things, its thirst for these things.
When it's no longer hungry or thirsty, it just stops. And when it stops, everything else stops. That is where you let go of everything, even the path, even the discernment that got you there."
( thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2011/10/aim-high.html )
So - whence the motivation to just stop? I guess when you're sufficiently fed up with everything =).