Karmadeddon

I saw this video and it was really thought-provoking for me:

vimeo.com/54939635#at=0

Any thoughts about this?

It would be really cool if you, Ron, having seen the video, would comment on it. What thoughts did it provoke?

Ever since I've taken on a teacher role, I've met students who have cycled through lots of teachers and some of them, once they get to know me, disclose that they were exploited by teachers. The guy in this video is a perfect example.

What struck me was the way his followers kept rationalizing his behavior as a kind of challenge to break them free of their hangups. I think I've seen this too, but didn't recognize for what it was at the time.

Frankly, it was one of the most disturbing films I've seen in a long time.

"Frankly, it was one of the most disturbing films I've seen in a long time.
"

Maybe it shows how disturbed I am? But i truly enjoyed it and truly believe that we get what we need when we need it. Be it a divine madman or just a deeply human narcissistic spiritual by-passer. Does it really matter?

Had a 1,5 year relationship with a female kali Guru myself and it was among the most intense experience's in my life. She pressured me and a few other mid twenties guys in to celibacy, saying it was a must if you where serious on the path. She had a different hang up around sexuality than Bagavan Das i believe as she told how she had been raped several times. That's my projection at least.She also wielded intense energy around and would totally blast you with bliss and I saw several people having deep spiritual openings around her. The sangha was also in constant turmoil as she where wielding her sword of crazy wisdom. Changing the rules and challenging our beliefs.

Did I feel totally turned inside out at times? Yes, almost puking with anxiety as stuff came up. Do I regret my time with her. Hell no, I'm truly grateful for it.

Part of me still believes that only someone like her could break through my strong arrogant sense of self. If I had stayed. I liked the t-shirt Jeff Brown was wearing. Surrender. is there anything else to do? When will I learn?

Another funny memory that came up watching Bhagavan Das was bhutan's national buddist saint, The Divine Madman, or Drukpa Kunley. That is pictured all over Bhutan always with an erect penis.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drukpa_Kunley

Not saying that Bagavan Das is such. But who knows?

Poem about happiness

by Drukpa Kunley

I am happy that I am a free Yogi.
So I grow more and more into my inner happiness.
I can have sex with many women,
because I help them to go the path of enlightenment.
Outwardly I'm a fool
and inwardly I live with a clear spiritual system.
Outwardly, I enjoy wine, women and song.
And inwardly I work for the benefit of all beings.
Outwardly, I live for my pleasure
and inwardly I do everything in the right moment.
Outwardly I am a ragged beggar
and inwardly a blissful Buddha.

A broken clock can be right twice a day, and if you want to praise the clock for that, um, okay.
Entitled narcissists can have a real charming side to them. They kind of have to.

Yeah, the thing with Taeo's parents, that was a creepy level of rationalization.

I started to feel a little sick when he rationalized his behavior by saying he was Anne Frank in a past life.

I'm at 19:19 and already feeling a little sick. "~I worship Kali, the god of sex and death. Her main form I worship her in is in the form of the Yoni. The vagina, the source of life, because we all come from it. ...I worship Women."

Oh man, run spiritual seeker, RUN!

24:35 uh oh, the sexy talk continues... now god is a hard on.

There might be hope for Bagavan Das if he says god is a grilled cheese sandwich, but he better say it soon...

27:33, okay you got five more minutes movie.

"27:33, okay you got five more minutes movie.
"

Oh no, this is going to be awful. At 29:00 he's starting to doubt, knows the guru is hooking up with young woman... and there is still an hour and twenty minutes left...obviously he doesn't run.

good editing, 35:00 here comes the voices of reason...including seane corn who, although cooky, has always seemed like a good soul to me. If they keep mixing in this good stuff, I'll keep watching.

59:03 still going... but I suspect the documentary crew is playing Bagavan, like they wanted this story and pretended to be followers. And playing me with the editing. I just can't believe this.

1:07 well I'm stopping here. I don't believe the documentary crew guy.

crap, had it just playing in the background, still wondering if it was BS and now at 119:20 the seeker dude let's the shoe drop -- he's talking about b.d. but he's probably describing himself: "~he's this guy that doesn't think he exists, but rather than dealing with that he just perpetuates his problem...he pushes everyone away from him that could possibly help him... he doesn't have the courage to deal with what is inside of him." It seems like the seeker might be talking about himself.

125 unbelievable how people justify their investments

Thanks for the play by play.

I found it pretty hard to watch too. I was really predisposed to see what JYET is describing. I want to believe in Crazy Wisdom. It would be great to be enlightened and still be a rebel and a misfit. The idea really appeals to the impulse to both have cake and eat it. But all I see here is ham-handed manipulation, and people who appear very easy to manipulate. The tactic of refuting any criticism as "projection" was awfully familiar, from recent conversations.

Also, statements like, "you get what you really need" reflect the kind of mushy logic that allows self-deception like we see from Taeo's parents. People like BD prey on that. All the mystical experiences, and energy and bliss don't amount to squat in the face of exploitation and abuse. Or even on their own. Vipassana practice makes it pretty clear that those experiences are just experiences, doesn't it?

Ron, have you seen Kumare? It's a documentary about a guy who poses as a guru. When I saw that, I thought Kumare himself was toeing the line of exploitation by positioning himself as a teacher and having nothing to offer people who sought his help. After watching Karmegeddon, I understand what Kumare was trying to uncover a little better.

Also, all of this just underscores in my mind the value of demystifying enlightenment and spirituality. I love all the down-to-earth, ho-hum workaday yogis here.

I like the many horrendous hats Jeff (filmmaker guy) wears thru-out the movie.

This was the first I've seen about Bhagavan Das aside from reading Be Here Now. I thought it was pretty sad how many people continue to follow him and rationalize his actions after being around him and seeing the harm he is causing others.

It seems very easy to place a teacher on a pedestal, and see them in a different way that your mind builds them up to be. I was out at IMS recently and talking with someone they said something like "Whatever Jospeh (Goldstein) say's we follow".

Anyway thanks for sharing. Strangely I want to go to a Kirtan again.

Finished it this AM. I won't describe the resolution, but I'm glad it ends the way it did. I still suspect a bit of acting by Jeff, in order to make this documentary, but that seems so common in most documentaries (I watch a lot of them) that it's hard to fault him.

Someguy77, you really captured the key lessons, the heart of why we want the crazy wisdom, how we contribute to the false guru dynamic.

Jonnyz -- interesting about the IMS person, doesn't surprise me. We really do, in some part of our hearts, want to solve our problems by "spiritual" following, but it's just like any other following.

Thanks for posting this Ron.

Bhagavan Das was a very successful used car salesman after he returned from India in the 70's.

Hey I thought Ram Das wrote Be Here Now? Was this dude in that book somehow? I don't remember, I haven't read it since I was a kid

"Hey I thought Ram Das wrote Be Here Now? Was this dude in that book somehow? I don't remember, I haven't read it since I was a kid "

Correct, Ram Das wrote Be Here Now. B Das wrote "it's here now, are you?" or something like that. Interestingly in the video, the seeker asks for guidance from R Das about how to deal with B Das!

There is an interview with Ram Dass at the end that is pretty illuminating. On a personal note, I has no idea he was on Maui - I wonder if he takes visitors?

@someguy77: I haven't seen Kumare but many people have mentioned it to me, so I'm definitely checking it out. I saw the preview and recognize Arge Barker from His parody music video "sickest Buddhist" which I totally love:

In Be Here Now Bhagavan Das is the young American kid who leads Richard Alpert to the guru, or something like that its in the first part.

And I don't know about Ramm Das accepting visitors, I know he still has events and speaks every now and then. login.ramdass.org/WP/retreats/