awouldbehipster's practice notes (part two)

The style and emphasis of my practice has been evolving over time, so I think this is an appropriate time to start a new thread.

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A higher form of meditation is more like non-meditation.

In the same way, a higher form of religion is more like non-religion.

But how do we get there? At what point do we simply trust the suchness of reality rather than push toward a goal? At what point are we able to give up the self-improvement project and let emptiness be our true home?

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If I could offer one tip to yogis at any level of practice, including those who have experience far above and beyond my own, it would be this: trust your own natural wakefulness.

EDIT: Spelling.

Oh, YEAH.
Amen.

"Oh, YEAH.
Amen."

roomy, your presence in this forum is a real joy

"The style and emphasis of my practice has been evolving over time, so I think this is an appropriate time to start a new thread.

::::::::::::::::::::::::

A higher form of meditation is more like non-meditation.

In the same way, a higher form of religion is more like non-religion.

But how do we get there? At what point do we simply trust the suchness of reality rather than push toward a goal? At what point are we able to give up the self-improvement project and let emptiness be our true home?

::::::::::::::::::::::::

If I could offer one tip to yogis at any level of practice, including those who have experience far above and beyond my own, it would be thus: trust your own natural wakefulness."

is it a given that "self improvement projects" never come from a place of emptiness?

it seems like the entity keeps on no matter what is going on on the inside

That's a good question, Mike. I don't know that I have the official answer, but...

Yes, the 'entity' as you call it (I prefer the term 'self-contraction') doesn't ever fully go away. This is actually a good thing. We need our egos to function as human beings. There is a place for self-improvement, and I'm all for that. Hell, I am trying to get into an MA in counseling psychology program, after all!

However, no amount of personal-improvement is going to be sufficient for realizing those aspects of our being which are beyond the personal. So while we're on the cushion, if the point is to see beyond the personal into the trans-personal and non-dual levels, our self-improvement efforts need to be set aside, if only temporarily.

Ultimately, I think that personal psychological work and contemplative practices are mutually supportive, when integrated properly. But I think it's helpful to develop each level within it's own context first, as it is more efficient to integrate two healthy wholes than a jumbled mess.

Does that make sense at all?

My sentiments, expressed above, exactly!-- wrt YOU, I mean.

"

A higher form of meditation is more like non-meditation....

.......If I could offer one tip to yogis at any level of practice, including those who have experience far above and beyond my own, it would be thus: trust your own natural wakefulness.

"

I want to just say "word!" and leave it at that.....

But, Jackson, I also get the sense that you have serious skills to share that go beyond these (delightful) pithy phrases. So, instead I'm going to push you to be a bit more generous and say something about HOW we trust our own natural wakefulness.

What's the difference in the way you relate to your mind and the world around you -- nowadays as opposed to before?

Or, to put it differently, what's your understanding of how thoughts, actions, perceptions, relationships operate that allows and/or hinders, as you put it, "a higher form of meditation"?

Much thanks.

-Ryan

---

Edited to correct my wrong paraphrase of Jackson's words.

Hey there, Ryan.

Thanks for chiming in. Those are good questions.

The benefit of recognizing my innate natural wakefulness within the context of the question above is pretty straight forward. This wakefulness is not mind or matter, thoughts or sensations, feelings or perceptions. Rather, it knows them, transcends and includes them. As would be expected, this makes experience of all kinds, the good the bad and the ugly, less "sticky". Also, the sense of seeking after something beyond the self-contraction is growing weaker and weaker, which brings a greater sense of freedom, or "spiritual autonomy", if you will

The reason I see this as a higher form of meditation (or non-meditation) is that it cuts right to the heart of the issue. Instead forcing one's self through a rigid self-improvement regimen, why not discover that which is already awake and allow it to carry your practice? The only "doing" involved is recognition. After that, it's all about letting go, not about "doing" meditation. I haven't always been able to do this well. I don't know if it's because I couldn't, or because I simply wasn't ready. But it is much more fulfilling and transformative than anything else I've practiced. Perhaps I've reached a stage of practice where this just comes naturally. Whatever the reason, I always had a feeling that the path would lead me here eventually, and I am thoroughly enjoying it.

If you wanted me to post something more practice oriented, let me know.

~Jackson

Jackson, Vince Horn wrote a blog post recently about something that resonated deeply with me and I suspect would with you, too, based on your comments. Up until a certain point my practice was focused outside, on getting to something that was "out there" and that I suspected innately would allow me to gain perspective on "myself" and thus assuage and maybe even eliminate suffering. The reality of my practice has been very different -- it has been directed inward and has become more and more inclusive. As awareness has been revealed to be the universal container that it is, it becomes more evident that fully experiencing "me" and everything else is what leads to less suffering, to liberation. This was an unsuspected part of practice but a truly helpful and positive one. It's as though one can suffer less by escaping INTO one's experience as opposed to escaping outside of it. Or, as is probably the case, one's ability to transcend the personal and even the transpersonal makes everything appear as one.

Hi Chris,

Yes, I read the post you mentioned and enjoyed it thoroughly.

Much like you, the more I practice the less I am concerned with finding something "out there." In reality, there's nothing on which we may hang our hat; there's nowhere we can place our feet.

What I'm discovering is an inherent natural openness to experience; an effortless, spacious wakefulness that is our birthright. Much of our suffering is due to habits of contraction (or ego-grasping), and we confuse that contraction to be "I/me/mine." But the contraction isn't necessary, and may thus be let go, which results in the reduction of dispensable suffering over time. And the more we trust this open, spacious awareness that is our true (Buddha) nature, the easier it becomes to release the self contraction and rest in our deepest natural condition.

I'm seeing more and more that this natural openness is really both the path and the goal. And this is where that "inclusive" aspect comes into play for me. Allowing ourselves to deeply experience whatever arises us to pass through our difficulties, resulting in both freedom and wisdom. This becomes more and more possible as we come to realize and rest in who we really are, which is unaffected by the slings and arrows of painful experience.

Resting as natural wakefulness, I notice three features and one taste'¦

Features:

Spaciousness (or emptiness); as nothing is fixed.

Knowing (or cognizance); as all is known of itself.

Transience (or impermanence); as manifest phenomena are perpetually in flux, expanding and contracting, arising and passing.

Taste:

Freedom.

What's your experience? Surrender and report

~Jackson

My experience report:

Nothing special; equal importance/non-importance
Luminous; empty of essence, always changing, interacting, flowing
Open; no barriers, no fear
Existential; all of this just is

*** IS ***

"
My experience report:

Nothing special; equal importance/non-importance
Luminous; empty of essence, always changing, interacting, flowing
Open; no barriers, no fear
Existential; all of this just is

*** IS ***

"

Yeah!!!

"Hey there, Ryan.

Thanks for chiming in. Those are good questions.

...This wakefulness is not mind or matter, thoughts or sensations, feelings or perceptions. Rather, it knows them, transcends and includes them. As would be expected, this makes experience of all kinds, the good the bad and the ugly, less "sticky". Also, the sense of seeking after something beyond the self-contraction is growing weaker and weaker, which brings a greater sense of freedom, or "spiritual autonomy", if you will

...

~Jackson"

You're very welcome. Fun to join in.

What you wrote definitely gets to what I was curious about. Thanks. The way you described wakefulness sounds much like perspectives I found recently on retreat at Bhavana Society, centering on the breath and then dropping it for a more a free-floating awareness of all the phenomena arising and passing away, as well as the sense of a "watcher" and then a sense of awareness of that "watcher." I can totally relate to that funny aspect of 'knows them, transcends them and includes them,' as you put it.

Continued below...

"The reason I see this as a higher form of meditation (or non-meditation) is that it cuts right to the heart of the issue. Instead forcing one's self through a rigid self-improvement regimen, why not discover that which is already awake and allow it to carry your practice? The only "doing" involved is recognition. After that, it's all about letting go, not about "doing" meditation. "

Funny how tuning into that more expansive perspective, the smaller one is "less sticky," like you said, but doesn't become insignificant, rather more like a vehicle or medium for expressing the expansive one. Does that make sense? I'm finding since coming back from retreat that with this "stickiness" diminished, I'm less inclined to search (out of pain, basically) and more inclined to explore (out of wonder).

Also, I'm not quite in agreement with you about the "rigid self-improvement regimen." I think that most people need to go through a stage of strict discipline, before they can come to the practice from a more restful and non-doing place. I know that's the case for me. It might be tempting to say, from beyond that stage, "oh, it's not necessary." But that might be a little bit like a world-class basketball player saying there's no need to learn to dribble. ; -) Now, I definitely agree, though, that if you CAN do it, why not, as you say, "allow it to carry your practice."

Continued below.

"I haven't always been able to do this well. I don't know if it's because I couldn't, or because I simply wasn't ready. But it is much more fulfilling and transformative than anything else I've practiced. Perhaps I've reached a stage of practice where this just comes naturally. Whatever the reason, I always had a feeling that the path would lead me here eventually, and I am thoroughly enjoying it.

If you wanted me to post something more practice oriented, let me know.

~Jackson"

So, this is pretty much what I was getting at in my last reply. I think it almost certainly is about having, "reached a stage in practice," that is more natural.

Shinzen Young talks the "Observer Trap," which I see as very similar, if not identical, to what we're discussing here....

....Meaning, fun as it is, if we're not careful, we might just be congregating in a trap, here. : )

It's at 6:27 in the video. Very much worth watching, IMHO.



In other news, glad to hear you're thoroughly enjoying it!

Something more practice oriented would certainly be welcome, if you have it on hand, but otherwise no need to scrounge it up. Good conversation, with or without it, as far as I'm concerned.

-Ryan

"Also, I'm not quite in agreement with you about the "rigid self-improvement regimen." I think that most people need to go through a stage of strict discipline, before they can come to the practice from a more restful and non-doing place. I know that's the case for me. It might be tempting to say, from beyond that stage, "oh, it's not necessary." But that might be a little bit like a world-class basketball player saying there's no need to learn to dribble. ; -) Now, I definitely agree, though, that if you CAN do it, why not, as you say, "allow it to carry your practice.""

I think I'm in agreement with you here. When I ask, "why not discover that which is already awake and allow it to carry your practice?" I mean it as a pointer. The answer could very well be, "Well, because I don't see it!" And if that is the case, a more strict, disciplined style of practice may be more appropriate. What I hope to convey is that there may be people out there who are able to surrender to what IS (i.e. drop the self-improvement regimen), but for one reason or another think it is counter-productive to do so. I am in agreement with Kenneth that the practice of surrender, if one is capable of doing so, is "upstream" from basic shamatha and vipassana. If you can recognize your own natural wakefulness, and truly let go of the self-contraction as a practice, this is preferable to most other forms of insight practice in my humble opinion.

(continued below)

"Shinzen Young talks the "Observer Trap," which I see as very similar, if not identical, to what we're discussing here...."

(continued from above)

"Shinzen Young talks the "Observer Trap," which I see as very similar, if not identical, to what we're discussing here...."

I can see why you would see a similarity, but there is a subtle difference. In my understanding, what Shinzen refers to as the "Observer" is like what Kenneth refers to as the "Witness". Getting stuck in the Witness is probably fairly common, because it reveals what one may refer to as the cognizing aspect of natural wakefulness, but a subtle duality remains. As long as the Witness remains intact, there remains something to let go of (or something still needs to collapse). So I would agree that there is a Witnessing/Observer trap, and that distinguishing Witnessing from Nondual can be tricky business. One subtle difference I've noticed is that the Witness feels a bit more grounded, while 3rd gear practice is groundless.

Bear in mind that I in no way claim to be stabilized in nondual awareness. Hardly! There's a big difference between Nonduality as a state experience as opposed to a developmental stage or structure. As we become more de-embedded in the lower levels of consciousness, the higher levels are become more available; in other words, they become easier to access. At least this has been the case in my experience.

I'll try to post something on practice a bit later.

"The way you described wakefulness sounds much like perspectives I found recently on retreat at Bhavana Society, centering on the breath and then dropping it for a more a free-floating awareness of all the phenomena arising and passing away, as well as the sense of a "watcher" and then a sense of awareness of that "watcher." I can totally relate to that funny aspect of 'knows them, transcends them and includes them,' as you put it."

Using the terminology of Kenneth and AugustLeo's "Strawman Model", that first description of "dropping [the breath] for a free-floating awareness of all the phenomena rising and passing away" sounds to me like PoC 3, "the Neighbor" - where, "the distance between the practitioner's 'me' and his experiences has increased such that he no longer feels attached to them." The "sense of awareness of that 'watcher'" sounds like a shift into PoC 4, "the Bystander" - where, "the practitioner has transcended Personal Consciousness. A detached transpersonal Self looks down from on high at an endless series of personal selves birthing and dying." Though, this could also be starting at PoC 4 and shifting into PoC 5, "the Witness." Hard to say, exactly.

And yes, each perspective transcends and includes all of the lower perspectives. To use Ken Wilber's terminology, the perspective being taken by the yogi is a "proximate-self", the self that is closest to them at that time. As the proximate-self raises to higher, more expansive perspectives, more of the lower perspectives become objectified. Neat, huh?

Of course, natural wakefulness is not separate from any of these perspectives, as it is what gives rise to them all, or makes them all possible. It is not itself a perspective, but is rather that which is left when identification with perspectives has been abandoned, if only temporarily.

"Of course, natural wakefulness is not separate from any of these perspectives, as it is what gives rise to them all, or makes them all possible. It is not itself a perspective, but is rather that which is left when identification with perspectives has been abandoned, if only temporarily."-awouldbehipster

Nice.

Or, as an Old West-style Dharma Sheriff might say, "Drop 'em!"

"'Em" in this case refers, of course, to everything. No objects, no subject.

"If we can bring together a vision of our innate potential with the compassion that recognizes and accepts where we are as human beings, our path can be caring and honest while being rich in creative potential. Our path must begin from where we are, not from some false distortion of ourselves in an attempt to be spiritual and special. Grandiosity comes when we get hooked on our visions and fail to live honestly and compassionately with our fallibility. There is nobility in our humanity and when we truly accept and surrender, we open naturally to our clear, brilliant nature because it is always there in the present in each moment. As we do so we must learn to live with a central paradox, which is that while we may endeavor to change and grow, change actually comes when we accept fully what is." ~Rob Preece, The Wisdom of Imperfection: The Challenge of Individuation in Buddhist Life (a book that I am very much enjoying).

Great quote Jackson. Our innate potential won't help us with our problems if we can't face and accept those problems in the first place.

I am slowly learning that trying to escape my relative problems by turning toward the absolute is like jumping into the air and in the hopes that I'll miss the ground on my way down.

: )

"I am slowly learning that trying to escape my relative problems by turning toward the absolute is like jumping into the air and in the hopes that I'll miss the ground on my way down.

: )"

I like the way you put that, Ian. Thanks.

And it's true. It's the situation we as meditation practitioners find ourselves in. Somehow we are to learn, over time, how to integrate the freedom of the always-already NOW that is our inherent natural wakefulness, and the day to day aspects of our personal reality as human beings. I find that too often, people will lean more heavily toward either personal existence or universal transcendence. To really bring these two together in harmonious way is a worthwhile aim - one that I don't think will ever end. We can make significant progress, though, and reap the benefits in this very life.

Ever since this most recent shift in my practice, where my own intrinsic natural wakefulness is becoming ever more clear through/during practice, I find that I'm getting frustrated with the fact that the clarity I experience in practice is not always so obvious. In other words, I easily fall back into the perspective of the self-contraction when I'm not practicing formally.

Reflecting on this reminds me of the Zen Ox-herding pictures*. Sometimes I see myself as depicted in the 4th picture, "Catching the Ox", where there is still a struggle involved in keeping the self-contraction at bay. Other times, I see myself as depicted in the 5th picture, "Taming the Ox", where the struggle has subsided but the distinction still obvious. Of course, there are moment of practice where things radically open up. The goal is to turn these temporary states into permanent traits. It is a lofty goal, but I do believe that is achievable.

Both Kenneth and my buddy Vince Horn (Buddhist Geeks) remind me not to forget that "the process is trustworthy." I can't force it. I can't push my way through. Something much bigger than "me" is going on here, and all I can do is allow myself to be carried along. The essential skills necessary for the journey are openness to experience and wakeful attentiveness. The ego can't do much more than that, if anything at all.

*[ www.shambhala.org/dharma/ctr/oxherding/ ]