Stages, Part the Third

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Okay, so after years of practice I'm going back and learning the Mahasi noting technique for real. I say for real because what I'm used to doing isn't really noting. I could always just watch experience float by and see what I needed to see. But I never really and truly learned proper noting technique. Thanks to Kenneth and at his suggestion, I'm off and running.

One old dog, one new trick

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i don't really get it. the mahasi technique is a tool to get to where you already are. why do you need it now?

I could write a book about that, Mike, but the short version is you will never be free of your own experience. The potential for getting lost in it will always be there no matter where you are on the path. We like to say "I'm free!" after certain attainments or paths and yes, there is the possibility of freedom at all times. But experience and the mind must be continually monitored and dis-embedding must be practiced, and that's best done through some kind of first gear practice. In your next session with Kenneth you should ask him about this. He and I spent 45 minutes on it a few days ago.

See, this is where our imprecision around language and natural enthusiasm starts to hurt, not help. Folks who are recent fourth path attainers are prone to scream "freedom!" from the mountain top. I did it and I've seen others here do it. That euphoria lasted, for me, about three weeks -- and then the rest of my life started. The past few days of noting have served me well to reinforced what happened at fourth path -- I have access to pure awareness and can watch my experience play out from that perspective. Or I jump in and experience life as I always did. It's a CHOICE,not an imperative, not a physical law.

So what I now experience is a seemingly never ending spiral of freedom, then a fall from that grace, then deeper realization and integration with daily life, then freedom, then a fall again, then a deeper realization and integration, then freedom.... and on and on.

So the Mahasi noting technique, just like your whole practice, is a tool to get you somewhere, yes, but also to keep you fit and focused when you arrive. Practice never ends, my good man. Never.

Oh, I would also add the life's circumstances seem to play a big part, at least for me. I've been going through some really awful sheet, one thing after another, all summer. My practice time has shrunk dramatically as I've had to focus on other people of necessity. That has not helped, to say the least. All first arrow stuff, and you will never be free of the first arrow. That's biology

That is hugely helpful to read - thanks Chris.

Kenneth mentioned he was doing noting practice and I wondered why. So the zen student asking the zen master," When does practice stop?" and receiving the answer from the master "When you die" makes a lot more sense now.

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I could write a book about that, Mike, but the short version is you will never be free of your own experience. The potential for getting lost in it will always be there no matter where you are on the path. We like to say "I'm free!" after certain attainments or paths and yes, there is the possibility of freedom at all times. But experience and the mind must be continually monitored and dis-embedding must be practiced, and that's best done through some kind of first gear practice. In your next session with Kenneth you should ask him about this. He and I spent 45 minutes on it a few days ago.

See, this is where our imprecision around language and natural enthusiasm starts to hurt, not help. Folks who are recent fourth path attainers are prone to scream "freedom!" from the mountain top. I did it and I've seen others here do it. That euphoria lasted, for me, about three weeks -- and then the rest of my life started. The past few days of noting have served me well to reinforced what happened at fourth path -- I have access to pure awareness and can watch my experience play out from that perspective. Or I jump in and experience life as I always did. It's a CHOICE,not an imperative, not a physical law.

So what I now experience is a seemingly never ending spiral of freedom, then a fall from that grace, then deeper realization and integration with daily life, then freedom, then a fall again, then a deeper realization and integration, then freedom.... and on and on.

So the Mahasi noting technique, just like your whole practice, is a tool to get you somewhere, yes, but also to keep you fit and focused when you arrive. Practice never ends, my good man. Never.

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What a great, and timely (for me), reply.

It becomes ever more clear to me as time passes that awakening is about full on intimacy. You must be *THIS* intimate with your experience so that you know it well enough to see it for what it is. So in a counter-intuitive way we start out thinking we're intimate with our experience when in fact much of what's happening is veiled or hidden from our view. It is only through dedicated practice that we gain the ability to see what's really happening from second to second, which provides the intimacy we need to awaken.

"So what I now experience is a seemingly never ending spiral of freedom, then a fall from that grace, then deeper realization and integration with daily life, then freedom, then a fall again, then a deeper realization and integration, then freedom.... and on and on." ~Chris

And here we have a sane, mature, realistic description of what it's like to live an awakened life.

In regards to what I posted above...

I spoke with Kenneth on the phone a few weeks ago, and we talked about what the noting technique reveals. On a micro level, we see that our mind states are not stable. We apply the noting technique, realize that we're doing it well, and our mood elevates way beyond what's appropriate. Then the progress is not sustainable, and we get disappointed, and the quality of mind states tend to plummet. Upon continued application of the technique, we again become proud of ourselves for doing it right, or for simply continuing to try, and thus our mood elevates, and so on and so forth, ad infinitum.

This is a microcosmic occurrence of what happens on a macro level. Difficultly, freedom, more difficulty, integration, and so on. Just knowing that this occurs takes the edge of a lot of the process. We benefit from knowing how the mind works.

We apply the noting technique, realize that we're doing it well, and our mood elevates way beyond what's appropriate. Then the progress is not sustainable, and we get disappointed, and the quality of mind states tend to plummet. Upon continued application of the technique, we again become proud of ourselves for doing it right, or for simply continuing to try, and thus our mood elevates, and so on and so forth, ad infinitum - Richard

That is also VERY helpful and insightful...makes a lot of sense too. I'm sure I'm falling into that trap already. Good to know it's there.

I suppose you can call me Richard. But, I prefer to go by Jackson

Thank you thank you thank Chris. As always telling it like it is... I pray these dark times will end soon for you... Thanks for continuing to give such an honest presentation of awakening...

I suppose you can call me Richard. But, I prefer to go by Jackson ~ Jackson

Oops, sorry Jackson - brain blip there...

Maybe karma, maybe not. Checking on for my flight to Denver this morning I received this message: "As an elite customer your upgrade is free."

Woot!

Everything occurs in the here and now. Our minds pretend it's not like that, though. Noting has the effect of keeping the mind here and now - it makes it obvious and it captures a lot of processing power that would otherwise be devoted to creating the illusions of past and future and other entertainments... for the mind.

I spent last evening wandering aimlessly around Pearl Street Mall here in Boulder, CO. It's a fascinating place because there is a pretty extensive Buddhist tinge to a lot of what you see here. The Boulder Bookstore had a huge Buddhist section on the second floor, many shops and restaurants have an Asian/Tibetan/Buddhist patina if not the actual word "Buddha" in their name. I finally had to retreat to my hotel room because the smoke from nearby wildfires was making my eyes hurt. I'm hoping Boulder can shed the fires before any more damage is done. It's such a great place.

PS: a block south of my hotel on 13th Street I may have spotted the retail source of our Mr. Horn's tea obsession

Cmarti,

Are you a tea fan yourself?

I am a very superficial tea fan. I lean more toward the dark side -- coffee!

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I am a very superficial tea fan. I lean more toward the dark side -- coffee!

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YESSSSSSSsssssssssssssssssssss....................... . . . . . . . . . .

**The highs and lows of coffee are very representative of life!

Jebus! My 21 year-old son just called. He broke his arm this morning. Fell down the steps in his apartment building at college. What next? An infestation of insects? A famine? A plague? A murder of crows?

"YESSSSSSSsssssssssssssssssssss....................... . . . . . . . . . . "

Nick, you need to copyright that

Egads!

Lets hope this thing lifts... and soon!

Also. My workterm student was on his way to a hunting trip and went off the road and destroyed his car (heavy rain/gravel on the highway). He's ok though, thankfully.

Here's an interesting kind of "trap" that one can fall into -- you can get very enamored of the highs and good feelings you get at certain times. This is, I think, also true of the immediate post-awkening period. It sounds weird and not very likely but it's a real thing, IMHO. So.... if it happens then you are opening yourself again to the strong gravity well of your own experience. This can lead to less practice, less watching, less care of the mind. All of that then leads to a fall from grace. If that happens you have to bootstrap your way back. It's a lot easier to pay closer attention when you don't really need to than it is to have to bootstrap. folks. Trust me, I know.

D'you think that this is the 'chains of gold' phenomenon-- wanting to cling to the 'good stuff', interpreted as 'success'? The way we cling to the 'bad stuff' is by going to war with it; it is possible to use 'disembedding' practice as a superior way of 'conquering' the bad stuff. Then the last thing we're inclined to do with our wonderful victory is disembed from THAT. 'Yeah, the BAD stuff is impermanent, not me, etc. But the GOOD stuff?-- damn straight! I earned it the hard way!'

'It's hard to run with a chain of lead... I don't know, but I've been told-- it's just as hard with a chain of gold.'

I have a mental image of someone having grabbed the gold ring on the slowly rotating 'Wheel of Fortune'-- which keeps on rolling, ring attached, person being slowly deposited in its path, to be run over still hanging on to that gold ring...

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Here's an interesting kind of "trap" that one can fall into -- you can get very enamored of the highs and good feelings you get at certain times. This is, I think, also true of the immediate post-awkening period. It sounds weird and not very likely but it's a real thing, IMHO. So.... if it happens then you are opening yourself again to the strong gravity well of your own experience. This can lead to less practice, less watching, less care of the mind. All of that then leads to a fall from grace. If that happens you have to bootstrap your way back. It's a lot easier to pay closer attention when you don't really need to than it is to have to bootstrap. folks. Trust me, I know.



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this isso true, thanks for putting it out there

"Then the last thing we're inclined to do with our wonderful victory is disembed from THAT. 'Yeah, the BAD stuff is impermanent, not me, etc. But the GOOD stuff?-- damn straight! I earned it the hard way!'" -- Roomy

Yep. that's it. We LIKE the good stuff. Where's the need to dis-embed from THAT stuff? And so we sow the seeds of another fall from grace. I'm admitting this here because I'm pretty sure it will happen to everyone at some point and it needs to be addressed as one of the nasty pitfalls. We focus way to much on the bad stuff, on ridding ourselves of anger, fear, anxiety and hate. Then we go out and revel in love, happiness, and joy. Well, guess what? Any object is an object. Clinging is the same process as aversion. By doing that we only pave the road back to ignorance.

I've dived back into first gear big time. Noting. Noting as fast as possible while sitting. Noting while working, playing, driving, eating. Just did an hour long sit on the front porch. Started with noting really fast, everything that came up. That was for about 20 minutes or so, then rode the jhanic arc up and down. Once done with that I just sat and played "penetrate the objects" for about 20 more minutes. That's a game I used to do a lot that entails as much investigation as it does noting: hear a car go by and watch the sequence of perception take place. That's the raw sound, the image, the naming, the judging, the whole arising and passing away of each thing pretending to be separate and distinct.

Objects break on the conscious mind like waves on the beach

After that hour I'm perfectly content to let the game continue because it plays itself with no effort. Just waves of objects arising and passing away in attention. Woosshh.... Woosshh.... Woosshh...