A&P or Bust

I'm taking my practice journal online for awhile to see if it adds any firepower to my practice. A lot of fantastic supports are already inplace: best teaching/instruction, maps and models, and role models I've ever had. Pretty much motivation and some consistent effort. Benign to positive family attitude. My practice feels engaging, interesting and doesn't feel in a rut (as it did for about 3 years before discovering DhO, MCTB, and KFD). However, pretty sure I'm stuck in 3rd nana territory, and I've been practicing for 30 years. (Probably had a couple of A&P type experiences 40+ years ago.) Though I can be cool with noting it and plugging along, I'm starting to become extremely inpatient!! 8^} And I'm starting to get old, but so far still can handle a rigorous retreat -- if I could go to one

For years, I usually can't. So, have to ramp up daily life practice and make it hard core! I think that's my problem (unless I'm spinning imaginary problems, and really just need to concentrate and note all the more). It seems like I make hard core efforts and pick up some day-to-day yards carrying the practice ball, only to get slammed back again by crazy schedules, work demands and householder responsibilities, and -- most frustratingly -- my own bad habits: such as chronic caffeine abuse, engaging in optional distractions, over-eating, under-exercizing and the like. I manage to hold some ground out there on the playing field, slogging away with the opposition, sometimes feeling the exileration of grabbing a little new territory, but my net gain toward the goal seems to be not much. The A&P, DN and Equanimity and jhana experiences yogis report aren't familiar to me. When the talk is about Noting practice, I can usually relate to that. Does that sound like chronic 3rd nana?

In addition to giving concentration its due, I suspect sila needs attention. I'm going to try ramping up the asceticism, if I can, at least as an experiment. Just the stuff that's always recommended on retreats: avoid entertainments, celibacy, eat less, and see if I can keep that up indefinitely as a lifestyle, in lieu of retreat opportunities. If a retreat does become possible, I'll be ready for it!

Since most everyone posting here seems at least post-A&P, I'm very interested in any pointers, including and especially when I've got the wrong idea or on a dead end, or missing something really useful. Also hoping that posting here will make me feel more accountable and connected and fuel my motivation and attainment, and maybe encourage anyone else in the same boat. It's worth a try!

If so, I believe the prescription is penetrating the object. I don't know what the difference is, or where the line is, between detailed, seemingly penetrating noting practice and 4th nana-grade P-t-O. Maybe it's simply reaching a boling point? Over the winter I worked on developing fast, comprehensive noting and find that to be a really powerful and fascinating practice. Suspected, though, that poor concentration has been a limiting factor and, for past month, have been working on breath counting and, starting today, kasina practice to increase mental power before taking up vipassana again. For off the mat, I still attempt noting and experimenting with 2nd-gearish "what knows this?" questioning.

MP, are you able to feel pulsing anywhere in the body? If so, see if you can feel it in various places, e.g., your hands, your feet, your chest. Let me know.

If not, put your fingers on your neck and find your pulse. Take a few minutes to sink into the rhythm and sensation. Then, take your hand away and see if you can still feel your pulse somewhere in the body, without putting your hand on your body to find the pulse. Let me know.

Kenneth

Hmmm.... Well I dunno a clear A&P showed up for the first time 4 years ago when I was 18 and under the influence of something. (Defiantly not recommending this approach) After that It would show up at least 2-3 times a year. I Feel that eating less is a good plan generally for intense periods of meditation. I dunno about aseticism its good to restrain a bit but don't go off the deep end. I dunno I got *what I believe to be* path while living at home, going to a mediocre college, and watching re-runs of cheers in my spare time... Granted I was practicing diligently but hopefully it will give you the oft ignored truth that the great spiritual endeavor is often less glamorous at times than we imagine. The A&P is just when whatever practice you are doing hits a boiling over point. I don't think there are any instructions I can give to someone who is trying to get there because I crossed it a while ago unintentionally... Its very doable... Keep practicing, noting, and trying not to grasp too much

edit:wow Kenneth's advice seems like a real solid creative way to get into that territory fast... DO THAT

Hi Kenneth, interesting that you ask about pulsing! Just spent an hour experimenting with that. There is almost always a strong pulse originating somewhere in my trunk that rocks my body 1/2" to the right, then falls back to the left before rocking to the right with the next pulse again. This is about as reliable an anchor object as the breath, but more frequent, about once each second. Just used it as an anchor while staring at a red kasina. With each pulse I'd note "red". (This was before I read your post asking about pulses.)


Since the pulse is so generalized, I often can feel a local instance of it almost anywhere I put the focus. With the kasina I chose to feel the pulse in the lower abdomen. Checking just now, it was pronounced in my right temple and could easily find it between my eyes. Not too hard to find it at the throat. After a minute of looking for it, could find it where my fingerand thumb were touching. In my chest it's overshadowed by heart beating. Maybe it is the heart beat throb, or lags it slightly, not sure. Not findig a distinct pulse in the feet.

Thanks Clayton. I guess I'm struggling with the boiling point, seems like I frequently get to steaming then cool off again. "wow Kenneth's advice seems like a real solid creative way to get into that territory fast... DO THAT". Thanks again, definitely into following Kenneth's advice, seen for myself that it works!

Kenneth, found some practice tips you gave me 4 months ago about working with pulses, finding a circuit and noting "puls-ing". Yep, can definitely relate to that. Then you advised settling into a more micro-noting view and see if there are any discontinuities in the pulse. I remember not finding any at the time and maybe that's why we moved on to other practices. This time one jumped out pretty quickly. Usually my idea of the pulse is this throbbing movement. In this evening's sitting noticed that there is a pulse (don't yet know what it is) -- followed by the body's movement that it does for some reason in response to the pulse. These are entirely discrete and discontinuous. Interestingly, writing this now from memory after being up and around for awhile, the discontinuity is not immediately apparent, seems like one pulse-movement again. After getting quiet and still for a minute, the discontinuity becomes obvious again. That's fun!

Tried cutting back substantially on caffeine and food today. Reducing both together seems to result in more sensitivity and subtlety of observation. Course also had unusually good night's sleep last night and did an hour of fairly focussed kasina meditation this morning, so it's always hard to find a sure cause for meditation states and fluctuations in awareness. I have a hunch these things, what I eat and drink, are worth experimenting with right now.

OK, great. As you watch the pulses around the body, do they ever break up into vibrations? Or do you ever feel vibrations randomly showing up around the body?

A.M. Tried sitting *before* my mandatory wake-up coffee today. Tried settling into the pulses and started getting a surprise attack of intense restlessness. That almost never happens during my morning sit, which is usually one of the most enjoyable points of the day. Figured it would pass but it intensified, alternating with short periods of drowsiness and yawns, followed by intense boredom. Can't remember the last time I felt boredom during a sitting. Evidently this is why I have an iron-clad habit of drinking coffee before I sit in the morning. Adult Ritalin. Managed to last it out for 45 mins before jumping up. Kept trying to return to the pulsing but too agitated to look for vibrations.

Tried again later after coffee, no problem. Settled into the pulsing and looked for vibrations, had also done this last night before bed, with same result. I'm not sure what qualifies as a vibration in this context. Almost seems like the word is used as a precise technical term here and on DhO. There are pronounced undulating sensations but I picture them more as like particles, points of tingly energy rather than vibrating strings or waves. So, maybe this is a stage-specific thing, post 3rd nana? In the meantime, I'll keep looking.

PM 25 mins of kasina before bed. I'll have to remember that kasina seems like a good choice when sleepy.

AM: overslept and then accidentally sat too long, 40 mins. Great start to the work week! 5 mins of kasina then noticed right arterial pulse in my neck and tried to stay with that for rest of the sitting. More than the heart beat, neck pulse required a pretty light touch. Just finding and keeping that light touch induced a seemingly more meditative state. An interesting feedback mechanism. Wish I had more time, looking forward to taking this up again later. (Of course, it will likely be something different later.

PM Long day, tired. 30 mins of kasina. Falling asleep.

This is good, MP. If you are indeed pre-A&P, becoming adept at following your pulse in different places around the body is the way forward. Also, spend some time sitting with your eyes open, moving your eyes back and forth from left to right, left, right, left, right. This seems to balance the flow of energy between the two brain hemispheres and is almost certain to shake things up in there. Just do it for two or three minutes at at time at first and see what happens.

Got a 2nd wind so did another 20+ minutes. Found a pulse in the middle of the forehead. Local circulatory pulses are relatively subtle objects for me and easily drowned out and lost by thinking or by direct concentration, To find it and keep it seems to require more releasing to it, being quiet and still, otherwise -- unlike the breath or noting predominant sensations -- it just gets drowned out and lost. Pretty cool object because staying with it at all puts me in a more surrendered state. Still getting used to staying with the pulse, not yet proficient enough at that to go micro with it and look for vibrations, though it's obvious that a pulse is a decomposable experience.

Oh, hi Kenneth! Working late tonight! Great, thanks so much for the individualized instruction. This pulse investigating is really something. Can hardly wait to try the eye movements. Have a good sleep.

Found it easy to see the pulse (and the breath) while waiting for sleep last night.
AM 25 mins kasina, joined by my cat. 3 or 4 mins of left, right eye movements. 30 mins of pulse investigation. Pulse in center of forehead volunteered again, and was really pronounced, quite easy to follow, even got pretty intense at times. Good opportunity to examine its characteristics. Got to run.

Long hours at work yesterday. Semi-conscious 20 min sit before bed. Woke 3am anxious about upcoming work projects, how they'll ruin my family life, summer, health and practice and so on. Tried to simply note the anxiety sensations. Hour and 1/2 later fell asleep for awhile.
AM sitting 70 mins: 30 kasina, 4 eye movement, 35 pulses, 2 eye movement. Soft and drowsy, chilled out, no longer anxious, not particularly acute awareness. Found several pulses various places, they were very soft and easily drowned out by other sensations.

PM sitting: 1 hour. A long time in and out of drowsiness. Felt like I was in a little bit of a subtle mode/mood and found pulses in several places but hard time holding any of it when asleep. Finally, woke up for awhile and found a pulse crown chakra. Hadn't spent anytime there in years, forgotten about it. It's still a very sensitive and somewhat energetic spot. Awake again, try it a little longer. Not too long before dreaming again. Try again in the morning.

AM sitting 50 mins, starting with l/r eye movements, then investigating pulses. Ending with l/r eye movements and 5 more mins of pulses. Oops, late for work. Some details later.

"AM sitting 50 mins, starting with l/r eye movements, then investigating pulses. Ending with l/r eye movements and 5 more mins of pulses. Oops, late for work. Some details later."

Are you getting any results with the eye movement exercise? Just wondering what it does because I might give it a shot as well.

"late for work. Some details later."

These practices helped me see simply some of what's going on with my body and behavior today. Maybe more at the klesa-illuminating level than jhanic arc. For example, I never knew why I rock so visibly with my heart beat. Exploring the pulses this morning, ended up seeing that I have a chronic stress-holding that creates a resistance field for the pulse that results in a reactive movement (the rocking sway) and makes a medium for extra sensations that have been puzzling me (I could tell they were somehow distinct from the core pulse but not sure what they were). Followed some of this down to an unusually relaxed state (for me) and then the rocking and ancillary sensations went away.

"Are you getting any results with the eye movement exercise? Just wondering what it does because I might give it a shot as well."

Hi mumuwu, enjoying your posts. I'm just starting with eye movements but it seems like it. While I was doing the L/R movements, it became clear to me how the left side of my head was kind of stressed by too much coffee and seemed a little shut down or subdued compared to the right side. Since I was evidently just defaulting to the right side, I wouldn't have noticed. So, the eye movements enabled me to see that the poor Left side was laying low in some stress! And this after a few years of having left-side migraines during which I never noticed this aspect of "myself" that has been in a sense just right there to see. Resuming pulses after this it was quieter and the energy shifted down into a pleasurable rush, first in my heart, then in my abdomen. I remember feeling very grateful to Kenneth for giving me these practices that help to turn the lights on!
PS: some kind of L/R eye movements are used to help people with post traumatic strees disorder break free from embedded trauma reactions. This might be similar to that.

"Hi mumuwu, enjoying your posts. I'm just starting with eye movements but it seems like it. While I was doing the L/R movements, it became clear to me how the left side of my head was kind of stressed by too much coffee and seemed a little shut down or subdued compared to the right side. Since I was evidently just defaulting to the right side, I wouldn't have noticed. So, the eye movements enabled me to see that the poor Left side was laying low in some stress! And this after a few years of having left-side migraines during which I never noticed this aspect of "myself" that has been in a sense just right there to see. Resuming pulses after this it was quieter and the energy shifted down into a pleasurable rush, first in my heart, then in my abdomen. I remember feeling very grateful to Kenneth for giving me these practices that help to turn the lights on!
PS: some kind of L/R eye movements are used to help people with post traumatic strees disorder break free from embedded trauma reactions. This might be similar to that. "

That's really neat. Earlier today I was doing a kasina practice and noticed that the image at one point started jumping to the left and right slightly. I compare it to the scene in wayne's world where wayne is like "Camera one, Camera two" as he closes one eye and then switches to the other eye.

I figured It had something to do with the hemispheres switching back and forth in terms of prominence.

Have you ever read about the studies on office cubicles when they were first introduced?

www.visionandpsychosis.net/