A&P or Bust

"
So... what do you "see" when you're noting or observing these vibrations? What are you looking for? If you can feel the vibrations in your hands,what happens in your head as a result?

"

p.m. sitting 20 mins: Hi, cmarti. I think I'm too tired to go into this very coherently tonight. I'll check on it again after the a.m. sit and get back to you

Oops. Please don't mistake my questions for orders or prescriptions or anything like that. I'm just watching your progress, curious about it... because you remind me of me. Take your time! You can tell me to get lost if that;'ll help

AM sitting 1hr 15 mins. Some recurring parts of my morning sittings that I've noticed in more or less vague fragments came together so I could see them more conciously and continuously just now. Actually I was kind of unintentionally mulling this over (or it was mulling itself) just yesterday, and it just kind of presented itself today. The question I intentionally sat down with was cmarti's "If you can feel the vibrations in your hands,what happens in your head as a result?" Sitting with that question seemed to result in this "answer": awareness of part of the predictable cycle of events that tend to happen in any morning sitting given a predictable amount of time, namely about and hour and 15 mins. For years I've preferred to sit at least an hour and preferrably a few minutes more to get the energetic shifts that happen at the end. I could see it clear go like this today: 1st 1/2 hour is always just thought settling down, no matter what practice I do to make it more meditative. So, 30 mins of sitting is fine but never satisfying. 1st 20 mins of 2nd 1/2 hour the range of stuff I think is meditative is likely to happen. Today it was noticing waves of pulsing vibrations in my hands and body. This always causes a cycle that the lights were really on for today, namely pressure and tension builds between my eyes and up an inch and my jaw clenches, eventually my jaw releases and forehead relaxes and pressure diminishes at the forehead point. Then at some point there will be some intensely sensual tingling in a point a couple of inches below the navel that I always wish would continue but doesn't.

Later my back will spontaneously straighten and the abdomen and forehead points will line up. Around an hour I often get spontaneous yoga-like moves loosening up my neck, shoulders and head. My neck roles and my shakes back and forth. This always emphasizes the right side then, if if there's time, the left. If I go for more than an hour and a half my entire trunk stretches to the right and right arm extends all the way behind me with left arm brought up in a crook behind my head. I always figured this is how yoga started. Very rarely this might happen on the left side if I sat longer, but I rarely have an more than an hour and 1/2.

None of this feels special and even seeing it felt very matter of fact. Meditatively what's noteworthy is just that I was seeing something that always goes on, like if I always farted after 20 mins. It is interesting though that there is such a predictable cycle to my sittings. This answers my wife's question "why do you have to sit that long?, what's wrong with 20 minutes?" Inconveniently, that's how long this takes, and it feels good after it happens, and seems to have some loose connection with insight practice but not sure what.

This has been happening for years whether I notice it or not but today I was seeing it with more comprehension. Another thing I saw today that I know happens 2 or 3 times or more in many sittings around the hour point but has been hard to see what it is, is a sudden intense build up of pressure in my forehead that feels kind of climatic and makes my jaw and eyes wiggle involuntarily. Today I saw how that's not isolated but just part of this cycle, though not sure about the sequence. Another thing I saw that I know is regular but really only caught it today was how toward the end when my head relaxed after being intense at one point, the intensity settled into my throat point for a minute or two then gently settled into the heart, which has been pretty flat energetically the last few months. Nothing much happened there but I could tell that's where the focus was. Then it went back up in my head and it might have been that's when the intense eye fluttering and jaw wiggling happens but can't recall the sequence.

"
Oops. Please don't mistake my questions for orders or prescriptions or anything like that. I'm just watching your progress, curious about it... because you remind me of me. Take your time! You can tell me to get lost if that;'ll help

"

Heck no, I think you're question stimulated something today. I appreciate your interest!

Let me try to rephrase my question -- what's happening in your MIND when you observe the vibrations in your hands? What's going on in there? Does it repeat? Are there images of something? Are you naming things? Can you see it happening? How fast is it? What makes it start? What makes it stop?

I used to do this: sit, get relaxed and quiet, stay alert. Feel vibrations somewhere -- trace the process of perceiving those -- feeling raw sensation in hands or feet -- picture appears in the mind of that body part -- recognition of that body part occurs, naming of it -- judgment of the mental creation of the object occurs (good, bad, neutral) -- and so on, and so on, and so on.

If you can't do this with a touch vibration try a doing it with a sound. The point is to answer the question, "How is this object created?"

fascinating account mpavoreal....ganbatte! (keep going! or something like that)

cmarti: I find your comments very useful too

"Let me try to rephrase my question -- what's happening in your MIND when you observe the vibrations in your hands? "

Thanks for this, cmarti. I'm very interested in your description and questions and looking forward to checking them out the next sitting I happen to be awake (perhaps in a couple of hours when I take my daughter to her kriya yoga service). Actually that was my intention this morning, but this involuntary process seemed to have it's own agenda.
Mentally, this was one of those days where I felt like "the lights were on", so I was taking advantage of it to look around. More than 1/2 the time on work days (not so much sleep), I feel like I only have a flashlight with a faulty connection between the batteries and bulb to work with. A narrow range of stuff shows up in an intermittent beam. Every now and then it's more like the overhead light came on, even if only 30 watts; that seems to make for more durable concentration, faster and more continuous noting, or more interesting investigation, depending on what the intention is.

"ganbatte! (keep going! or something like that)
"

Thank you, sparqi! I've been wondering if my physio-energetic system keeps going through this repetitive cycle, and not on to new territory, because something is stuck. During middle of the night when I sometimes have chilling 2nd nana insights, I've been convinced that my caffeine substance abuse might be blocking things energetically. Hence cutting caffeine by 1/2 this week (after 10 years of dedicated daily habit). I'll have to keep up the restraint for awhile and increase it probably to find out.

You could try something like green tea instead. It released caffeine differently into the system (slowly over time) and it has other chemicals which make you feel less stressed but also alert.

Thanks mumuwu. Interesting info about green tea. Over the years I've explored most of the loopholes with caffeine abuse. For me it's not as much the caffeine as the pattern of abuse that's the problem. After several days of reducing caffeine below the intoxication level to just managing withdrawal symptoms level, looks like this is likely to shake up my practice -- different brain chemistry. Even different physio-energetic situation. And willingness to experience things avoided.

Hi MP,

The caffeine question is important if you feel that it affects your quality of life, but has very little to do with your success in meditation. It's really just another thing to spin about. Note the spinning and continue to note both in daily life and on the cushion. If some evil perpetrator kidnapped you and force-fed you coffee, you could still awaken by carefully noting the pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral sensations as well as your thoughts and feelings about them. You are making good practice, so keep up the good work!

Metta,

Kenneth

"Let me try to rephrase my question -- what's happening in your MIND when you observe the vibrations i... The point is to answer the question, "How is this object created?"

"

Didn't get a chance to take this up yet. Yesterday had it's own momentum. Curious experience at work. My boss was thinking out loud, showing me some papers. I noticed that I was aware of body sensations, changing mental images, and self image was behaving unusually. Instead of being a disreputable phenomena it seemed like an energy and seeing the energy was pleasurable. Had the thought, this can't be meditation I'm all caught up in work. Followed by, well how is this not meditation? So, tested it noting the various things being noticed while talking with my boss. Had to admit there didn't really seem a difference. The sensory elements I could identify were there to be seen. This gave me an unusually feeling of happiness to be listening to my boss go through her mental process. The only problem was I couldn't really follow effectively, analytically what she was saying! Played with this a little more later, but it was one of those meditation moments that suggests the possibility and then moves along.

"If some evil perpetrator kidnapped you and force-fed you coffee"

That would be great! Hopefully organic Ethiopian. (Gracias!!)

Had a 2 hour sit with my daughter at her kriya yoga meditation service last night. There was space and energy available and pull to just be choicelessly aware, so I went with it. It hit the ground running and lasted over an hour, then started getting a little drowsy. Tried to experience that choicelessly too. Could, until momentarily drowsing off. In last 1/2 hour discomfort and pain started to agitate the mind some, so switched to focusing on the particulars of the pain.
Afterwards in the greeting line to see my daughter's teacher (who I believe is a developed yogi), it felt like there was so much space between where I was and my social anxiety and awkwardness that it was actually fun, kind of amusing to just see it. Felt like something came a little unhinged and snapped back in place before I could get a good look at it. When I actually shook the guru's hand, I lost the awareness and said something stupid on auto pilot, but those moments in line were priceless.

PM sitting last night 1+ hours. Usual slide toward sleep in evening sitting didn't happen last night. There was so much wakeful energy, despite little caffeine, that I ended up sitting until midnight, energized and drawn to sit but didn't find much precision. Had trouble sleeping through the night and tried following breath in bed. Only time for 20 mins sitting this morning but it felt settling. Unusual not to feel tired today after so little sleep. Difficult day at work, felt paranoid that several people at work regard me poorly. The cool, calm, cheer and detachment I felt yesterday were history today and felt too distracted by work demands to notice/note much of it.

AM sit: 1.5 hrs. Sittings some times fly by, even though it didn't seem like a special absorbed state. 1st 35 mins trying to find a hook to settle down. Started immediately with following breath at nostrils, intending to forcefully ground the 1st part of the sitting. After waking up from thought a couple of times and finding myself habitually tuning into pulses in my body, just went with that. Pulses and vibrations were obvious but it felt like unexamined-me, up here, noting the range of experience described by pulsing down there. So, switched to general noting while including the pulses. Never used to notice pulses much but now that I've spent quality time with them they're more normally a central part of general noting.

As soon as I switched to general noting things clicked into a groove and I checked my clock, even at risk of derailing the groove. 40 mins, about on schedule, and yep it did unsettle the groove, but grooved again after a few minutes. Shedding the idea that the mind needs to be a certain way to be aware or meditating is turning out to be like peeling the layers of an onion. And seems like appreciation for the principle that things only need to be seen could just keep unfolding a long way. It was like that today, "all I have to do is see this, it's just arising, that's all, there it is, what's the problem" -- as if I had never heard or thought that before. Actually, it didn't have that amused arm chair quality at the time, it was much more immediate --(but I didn't catch *that* thought/reflection when it happened). Maybe that's why it seemed so fresh, I was seeing more of thought and self-image pieces objectively, in the act, than usual, sort of like seeing a bit of ink spill in a water current pretty clearly right over there, rather than this murky feeling of noting a thought that might have already happened and feels kind of like me. Maybe it was one of the 1st times for that.

cmarti, I had your questions in mind this time, does this address what you were asking about?

Yes, definitely a good start. Again, what is an object? How is it created? Because, you know. it IS created. Things do not exist on their own in the way you habitually think about them -- they are defined, conceptualized, as independent entities by a process. How does that process work?

Sat for another hour & 15 mins around Noon today with the question "why does something in the mind have to be looked at to be seen, isn't it already there?" To get the idea of noticing it, it must already have registered in awareness, I wondered. If the alertness is toward the max of my acuity range, with an attitude like "what might come up next", sometimes it has seemed like the arising and the seeing seem in sync, then the mechanism of noticing seems like a bit of a clunky after thought. Since the acuity and the question seemed to have shown up at the same time, really wanted to pursue that. (I was thinking of a book by a teacher I used to work with titled "Seeing Without Knowing".) Unfortunately, the notion of posting an account of my 2nd (MDA-induced) A&P-like experience from 40 years ago had come up and my mind seemed hell-bent to compose it despite "my" interest in this much more immediate question. So, I spent most of the sitting pulling the plug on the A&P Story every time it would spurt out another couple of sentences.

Saw cmarti's tips about object creation just before going for a long meditative walk with one of my meditative daughters. As we walked in silence in the hot sun it felt just as meditative as sitting. Tried to keep an eye generally on the immediate presenting sensory field and notice when an image about any of it was formed. It seemed like a gross objectification wasn't always happening and in the gaps it seemed possible to investigate the sensory experience actually happening at the moment.

Back from the walk, sat again and the question came up "do I have to look at it for anything to be there? Will anything be there if I don't look? That was inconclusively interesting for about 5 or 10 minutes until it became obvious that the acuity was no longer available so switched to blatant noting just to try to stay in the game, but tried to note non-manipulatively. Just tried to note the onset of drowsiness and drooping of attention. That's been interesting to get a little friendly with more of my 10 least wanted list of un-meditative states. After 25 minutes I was dozing, and I don't yet sit for long with dozing. I guess that's close to enemy number 1.

Yesterday, 1 hour sit in a.m., 30 mins p.m. All day driving, walking, hiking and eating with my family in Summer land. Focused all day yesterday on noticing the difference between images of objects and physical sensations the objects seem to represent. One welcome development is that practice can continue during these kind of activities that for years would have seemed too busy and complicated to be able to maintain some kind of sense of awareness or meditation-in-action with. The next amazing horizon would be to find work a field of awareness practice.

Today, 1 hour am sitting: continued looking into imagery/object creation and relation to the experience supposedly represented by that. This seemed to require very close, minute investigation this time. At times it seemed clearly possible to see the difference between feeling vibratory experience and seeing an image of vibrations. I guess this is like really exploring 1st Nana + whatever Nana involves having insight into exactly how the mind makes a cartoon story of one's life and then finds that more convincing than other dimensions of life.

am sitting 1hr 25 mins. Planned to notice sensations and images/object creation but was stirred up with self-story generation. Tried to apply generalized noticing/noting. The content seemed desperately to want to make a case for itself as a vitally important story, so had to approach it with some reflection at times: "I've arranged to start seeing a therapist later, but I'm here to notice the sensations right now" etc. After about 45 mins of noting predominant sensations and returning from being carried away by story lines, tried to zero in more on the beginnings of the story lines and found the feeling of being unsafe. Reflected for a moment that trying to manage my personal story helps manipulate the feeling of safety. Returned to noting feelings, sensations and images trying to continue to let the content go. Took about an hour and 10 mins to get to the point where it would really drop long enough for noticeable periods of sustained noting/concentration to settle in. This felt like plugging a leak in the throat chakra and also like center of gravity had shifted more towards the chest. When the desire to think about it would pop up the throat chakra would leak and signal me to go right back to concentrating. Kept that up for about 15 mins.