Owen's Practice Journal

Hey everybody. Since this will be more of a daily log, I figured I would break this out into its own thing.

Sit for 7-15-10

Started with three rounds of breath counting, quickly hitting the A&P. Shifted into noting during dissolution. Passed again through nanas 6-10 without too much difficulty. The dark night stuff just seems, well like dark night stuff. It is unstable, irritating and for now at least, not so much of a problem. Ask me about it again in a few months, my perspective will probably be different.

Landed in equanimity, didn't take long to stabilize at all. Really feels like I own this territory now. Noted the eye fluttering, for a few minutes and had a fruition. Always amazed that "thunk" of that last out breath, almost like a heavy old lock finally turned and fell into place.

Noted feelings of intense joy and peace after, and hung out in equanimity. Feeling playful, so I focused on the sensations of spaciousness until I completely lost touch with my body sensations. Boundless space seemed, well boundless. Tuned into the sense of an observer and made it into boundless consciousness. Sat there noting the feeling of consciousness itself. Consciousness without object feels a bit like unmolded clay. Became clear that I don't really see anything in itself in real time, just the traces and echoes of it marked into my consciousness. Started to note consciousness itself phasing, felt like I was on a border to the next jhana, standing on my toes and peering over a wall.
I couldn't go any further and felt myself beginning to unwind. Eventually found myself back down into equanimity, noting more eye pulses, almost the suggestions of a fruition. Noted the sound of the alarm, took a while to tune back into waking consciousness. Mind felt very clean and bright.

Walking around state is equanimity, but it feels much more normal now, less dramatic.

Wow. Okay, cycles. I seem to have gone back through what I'm now figuring out was an A&P and dissolution. Moved through the dark night again and seem to hovering between re-observation and equanimity. This is all off the cushion. In about a day. It's a bit like realizing mid-trip that someone just cut your brake lines.

"Wow. Okay, cycles. I seem to have gone back through what I'm now figuring out was an A&P and dissolution. Moved through the dark night again and seem to hovering between re-observation and equanimity. This is all off the cushion. In about a day. It's a bit like realizing mid-trip that someone just cut your brake lines. "

Hi Owen,

I don't know if you are taking instructions from Kenneth or not, but if you aren't, I'll just offer some advice on what i did to very quickly get through 2nd path to 3rd...because if it feels amazing now, third path is much, much better. If you are taking instructions from Kenneth, then ignore what I say.

I found that the following two practices made for extremely fast progress.

One: Noting! I dropped noting after 1st path thinking it wasn't necessary. Well, after a few horrible dark nights, Kenneth directed me back to noting. And not just noting during the dark night, but also in the pleasant states and stages like equanimity.

Two: Dwelling in the Witness and riding the jhanic arc/ Non-manipulation of the jhanas. Usually this practice was practiced during the calmer stages preferably equanimity of formations stage. But can be practiced whenever.


These two practices made it so I went from 2nd to 3rd very quickly, within a few months.

What the fractal!!!??? I found 2nd path cycles to get a bit crazy and at times I had no idea where I was. Cycles within cycles within cycles. Fun times!!

Thanks Nikolai.
Advice is always welcome. Good timing too. I just got up from a sit where I literally just got sucked right into a fruition, then felt like I was kicked upstairs into boundless space, boundless consciousness and what I think was nothingness. I began to note nothingness start to strobe and, to be honest, freaked out a bit.

But yeah, definitely a strong desire to manipulate my move through the jhanas. They have a "new toy feeling". Noting desire to note to move through the dark night, noting desire not to note so I can hang out in equanimity.

But I'm quickly coming to terms with the fact that I don't get to set any terms.
Thanks for the reminder about the witness, that practice saved my ass during 1st path dark night. Also fun to hang out in 6th jhana. It's a bit like getting invited to hang out on the back porch of the witness's house.

The cycles are getting faster, and interesting stuff it starting to show up. My perceptions of the world and the basic facts of reality have shifted hard. I think I finally understand that bit that zen talks about all the time, "Life and death are the same thing!" At least my body feels like it understands it.

But again, many thanks for all the support. Feels like I've joined an awesome community.

Sit for 7-17-2010

Began as usual with a few rounds of breath counting, having a hard time figuring out my movement through the arc during the shamatha phase, seems to focused to tell, but when I drop into noting it becomes quickly apparent. Cycles are getting faster. The fruition this time was colored by my earlier intense noting during 6-10, particularly suffering. Noticed full 6 sense door formation, it seemed to be all suffering and then I got sucked into the space between the eye strobing. It always seems so strange right after, as if there is a bit I will never be able to make out or take with me. Just *bam* stopping. What's especially weird is the time sense distortion that echoes out from the event. Also noting colors right up to it, usually browns or dark yellows.
Rode into boundless space and consciousness, took a slightly longer sojourn into nothingness. Man, nothingness is really kind of disconcerting. Barely... just almost able to see nothingness phase for a bit. On the edge of something beyond bizarre.
Rode the arc back down and finished right at an A&P. Boy, the room was BRIGHT when my eyes opened!

No sit yesterday, birthday got in the way.

Sit for 7-19-2010

Few rounds of breath counting to start.
Rising - coolness - tingling - falling - itch - pressure - tension - rising - tension - itch - tension - pressure - falling -pressure - fluttering - rising - tingling - itch - pressure - falling- tension - tension - itch - tension - pressure - sadness - coolness - warmth - stillness - joy - expansion - expansion -
skin coolness - awareness expansion - spaciousness - expansion - nervousness - fear - anxiety - fear - fear - tension - pain - tension -pain - pain - expansion - contraction - future thoughts - nausea - gurgling - disgust - nausea - urge to move - urge to move - unpleasant emotion - thoughts - future thoughts - planning thoughts - lightness - shifting - spaciousness - pleasant sensation - ease - rising - falling - thrumming - pleasure - tightness - flickering - flickering - space - flicker - space - gap - bliss wave - bliss wave - thinking - flicker - space - flicker - space - light - thinking - flicker - space - gap - bliss wave - bliss wave - thinking - spacious - flicker - space - space - flicker - space - space - consciousness - space - consciousness - consciousness - consciousness - consciousness - consciousness - dark - dark - dark - edge of thought - dark - consciousness - dark dark - edge of thought - rising - rising - flicker - unknown station - unknown station - weirdness - weirdness - rush of bliss - lightness - thought - dark - dark - dark - consciousness - consciousness - space - space - panoramic space - serenity - pleasant feeling - thought - space - serenity - thinking -thinking - future thinking -planning - serenity - thrumming - solidity - ease - waiting -waiting - ease waiting -ease.

Overall feeling tone before sit : Pink Floyd's "Wish you were here"
After sit: Bach's "Brandenburg Concertos"

General state so far: Equanimity.

Trying new practice from Kenneth. Directing attention at the "sweet spot" between samatha and vipassana while in equanimity. Noticing flickering around eyes and hanging out in almost constant anicca fruitions. Flicker - flicker - flicker - gap - bliss wave - flicker - flicker - gap - bliss wave...
Playing with where to focus my field of vision in relation to the phenomenon. Eyes up too far is jarring and unpleasant, eyes down too low is almost total samatha absorption. Got into a sweet spot a few times during the sit. Also found myself really annoyed with the movement through the arc.
Playing with it a bit last night while reclining. Bliss waves almost got too much to stand. I get the golden handcuffs concept now. Almost feel a bit guilty for the intensity of the pleasure of all this. Almost.

Heh, golden chains you mean? Golden handcuffs kind of sounds kinky. haha!

For me the golden chains of 3rd path was what the hell, after feeling like 4th path was just around the corner, do i do to get there. Cos it ain't no fruition that gets you there. It's more of a perceptual shift that you can kind "think" yourself into. That was kind of my experience. But it sounds like you are having fun at 2nd path still. Wait until you get up into the pure abode jhanas!!

Golden handcuffs!! haha!

Oh, yeah. Golden chains... that's it. Must have been thinking about something else.

So you mentioned that it took you less than a year from 2nd path to 3rd? I'm getting the idea that the emotional intensity of 2nd path is going to really push me to move to 3rd. I feel rather... sped up.

Right now though I'm still in total relief that I'm no longer stuck in a seemingly endless dark night of 1st. I'm also cycling every couple of days or so. The dark nights are there, but now they only seem to last about half a day.

I'm also thinking I could get really lost in the arupa jhanas if I'm not careful. They are freaking seductive.

Hi Owen

Much less than one year. I got SE on the 1st of January. 2nd happened very quickly after 1st. I am unsure when exactly the transition to 3rd happened. But once I was accessing pure abodes and nirodha some 4 months after stream entry, that's when i knewit to probably be 3rd path. From 3rd to the recent shift in perception it was a couple of months.

"
Hi Owen

Much less than one year. I got SE on the 1st of January. 2nd happened very quickly after 1st. I am unsure when exactly the transition to 3rd happened. But once I was accessing pure abodes and nirodha some 4 months after stream entry, that's when i knewit to probably be 3rd path. From 3rd to the recent shift in perception it was a couple of months.
"

Wow, that's awesome. I'm curious as to your thoughts as to why it happened so quickly.
Was it just noting and dwelling as the witness? I'm beginning to wonder if all the time marinating in the dark night stuff (since I was 12 or 13 with my first A&P) has anything to do with relative speed of progress. I remember reading that you were in it for about 9 years before you got unstuck.

"Wow, that's awesome. I'm curious as to your thoughts as to why it happened so quickly.
Was it just noting and dwelling as the witness? I'm beginning to wonder if all the time marinating in the dark night stuff (since I was 12 or 13 with my first A&P) has anything to do with relative speed of progress. I remember reading that you were in it for about 9 years before you got unstuck."

Hi Owen,

Yeh 9 years after my first A/P that I can remember. For my whole life since early teenager, I was looking for something. But my first Vipassana course in 2000 was what really set off the search. Cycled up and down the first 11 nanas without knowing what was going on. Developed a lot of "equanimity" while in the Goenka tradition. Got very good at concentration through breath and observing the heart region for hours at a time. Was very dedicated to it all.

Something makes me think it was all good preparation. It is what seems to have primed me to do it fairly quickly. That and having found Daniel's book, the DhO and especially this place and Kenneth. From Kenneth's instructions I just did noting and dwelling in the Witness. Both of them were what I think sped up progress. That and a combination of always having strong concentration. I had instant access by will of mind alone to the first 8 jhanas directly after SE. And honestly, I found I had access to all that a day before I got SE itself just by directing the mind. All this without any training to speak of except for some kasina work previously. But I was only getting to 2nd jhana, maybe.

Maybe a bit of karma mixed in there too. Who knows?

"Hi Owen,

Yeh 9 years after my first A/P that I can remember. For my whole life since early teenager, I was looking for something. But my first Vipassana course in 2000 was what really set off the search. Cycled up and down the first 11 nanas without knowing what was going on. Developed a lot of "equanimity" while in the Goenka tradition. Got very good at concentration through breath and observing the heart region for hours at a time. Was very dedicated to it all.

Something makes me think it was all good preparation. It is what seems to have primed me to do it fairly quickly. That and having found Daniel's book, the DhO and especially this place and Kenneth. From Kenneth's instructions I just did noting and dwelling in the Witness. Both of them where what I think sped up progress. That and a combination of always having strong concentration. I had instant access by will of mind alone to the first 8 jhanas directly after SE. And honestly, I found I had access to all that a day before I got SE itself just by directing the mind. All this without any training to speak of except for some kasina work previously. But I was only getting to 2nd jhana, maybe.

Maybe a bit of karma mixed in there too. Who knows?"

Right there with you on the persistent "Need to find something, couldn't tell you what" motivation. It really plagued the hell out of me until I found dharma practice.

Maybe it is just the typically map obsession of 2nd path, but I keep wondering about time frames and what I can do to _not_ get in my own way. I understand that there are no shortcuts, but I'm beginning to think of all the fun ways I've sabotaged myself over the years without realizing it. I could probably write a book just about that.

" I keep wondering about time frames and what I can do to _not_ get in my own way.
"

Hmmm, what got me from 3rd path to the current permanent perception shift was finally realizing through actually seeing in real time that the formation of self, the sense of "I", the sensations/images/thoughts that cluster together to prop it up are nothing more than just that; sensations/images/thoughts AND that phenomena which is fabricating the sense of self is no more important than the rest of the phenomena-thoughts, images, sensations etc. It's all the same!!!!!!!!!! As Chris has said, and which ultimately helped me "get it", was "See the non-sacredness of all phenomena!!!!"

What can "you" do to get out of the way? See that "you", that sense of self and what it's made up of as no more important, no better than all the rest of phenomena of the mind body process. There really is no hierarchy. It's all the same status. Keep this in mind and the fact that this "you" has nothing to do with getting it done and maybe things will speed up some more. Are you giving the sense of a self more importance than the other sensations? Is the sense of self being put up on a pedestal? Does it feel like the big boss? The king of the hill? Level that hill, it's ALL the same!

Maybe it will help!

Hey Owen... I am not exactly sure but I believe the shift from 2nd to 3rd path happened over the course of one month. Hard to say exactly when 2nd path was though. My advice is to do some jhanic arch stuff... I would recomend reading Jackson's helpful instructions for attaining the Pure Land Jhanas... They really helped me... Also Nick and Kenneth's is worth checking out...

Nikolai, Claton, thanks for the comments.

I'm probably making a bigger deal about moving from 2nd to 3rd than it needs to be. Perhaps I'm just a touch gun shy after this last year mostly spent in a brutal dark night, thinking it was going to go on FOREVER. When you get to know me, I'm really quite the drama queen.

I think I'm just going to note my ass off and not meddle with my experience for the time being. It got me over the last hump. In the end, if I'm aware if it, it ain't me.

So, subjectively, what was the big shift between 2nd and 3rd? Was it more of just a "Hey, cool, this is a pure abode" or was there something fundamentally different about how the mind seemed to work?

"
So, subjectively, what was the big shift between 2nd and 3rd?
"

For the transition from 2nd to 3rd, I had a couple of "special" fruitions which left my perception slightly altered, the latter one being the most obvious. When I say perception, I mean how the mind felt inside the head as well as the degree of "stickiness" or clinging involved in the whole suffering business. The most "special" of those fruitions though ( I call it special cos it felt out of the ordinary compared to all the thousands of other fruitions experienced previously) was quite violent, in that it felt really obvious at the entrance to the cessation moment in my brain. After, in the days following this fruition, it became very obvious that my perception had shifted. I felt very, very aloof to all the phenomena, negative and positive, arising and passing away in the mind and body. Concentration and peace was increased, and there were more moments of seeing in seeing, feeling in feeling than before where the center point would dissolve for several moments. The mind felt "radiant" but still with the sense of "I" holding some sort of illusory higher status over the rest of phenomena. I use the word "radiant" as it fits my experience. I took it from Maha Boowa's account of when he had to deal with the golden handc...i mean golden chains of anagamihood He refered to the mind previous to 4th path as radiant but emanating from a single point. It's awesome: Look at Part 2 for the "radiant mind" reference.

www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books/Maha_Bo...Arahantship.htm#PART 2

But I had access to nirodha and a pure abode before this "special" fruition. So it's hard to say when the transition occurred. Seems like , in my experience, it was more of a long dragged out process compared to say, the transition from 1st to 2nd which was obvious one time.

By the time I felt confident I was an anagami things were definatly different than the first 2 paths. Walking around I would say 60 to 70% of my experience was imbued with a real sense of what I would have called the divine. It can also be refered to as luminosity, emptiness etc. They are all adjectives describing the same thing. There was a real sense of subtle pride most of the time because my experience seemed on such a high level. Although thankfully I don't think I offended anyone with my actions or speech. Very vivid sense impressions. Defiantly stank pretty bad of Enlightenment from time to time... well all the time really... LOTS of craving for the blissfull pure abode jhanas... Lots of subtle tension wondering what there was left to do... I hope you enjoy your golden handcuffs... er chains

Cool, thanks guys!

Never going to let me live down the "Golden Handcuffs" are ya? See, I've never actually had the experience of chains, but I have been spread eagle over the hood of a police car and... well never mind. Fetters are fetters.

Whooo, found the sweet spot. Before the sit I made a resolution to explore the 8th jhana. Went up the arc and eventually had a dukkha cessation followed by a five minute constant stream of anicca fruitions. Was latched on to the perfect spot on the horizon, total balance of effort and support. Then up through the arupa jhanas to a really strong experience of 8. It seems like it can be investigated, but not by thinking.
In retrospect, my mind felt very different in the state. Can't describe it really. Dan is right, any trace of a thought will pull you right back into nothingness. Fun sit. Feel very charged and refreshed!

Interesting shift in perspective last night. Was pondering samatha practice and the need to keep an illusory sense of the continuity of sensation to go deeper. It then popped into my head, "That's what I've been doing with my gross ego awareness the whole time".
It stuck me hard that the separate-self contraction is as much of a concentration state as any samatha jhana, it just sucks most of the time. It then occurred to me that if I can break out of a samatha jhana by applying the vipassana technique and noticing suffering, non-self and impermanence, then the sense of a separate self is just another object in awareness. It isn't continuous! There are gaps. If there are gaps, it was never really me at any level! I don't have waste my life constantly protecting the damn thing!
Something feels very different right now, as if what I'd always taken to be me... isn't. And if it is not me, it is just another object in awareness. Just something happening, not to anybody in particular. I can let it stop being special.

Physically, I feel so much lighter. It's as if a vise grip that had always been cinched around my chest has just fallen off.

I am so grateful right now.

"It then occurred to me that if I can break out of a samatha jhana by applying the vipassana technique and noticing suffering, non-self and impermanence, then the sense of a separate self is just another object in awareness. It isn't continuous! There are gaps. If there are gaps, it was never really me at any level! I don't have waste my life constantly protecting the damn thing!
Something feels very different right now, as if what I'd always taken to be me... isn't. And if it is not me, it is just another object in awareness. Just something happening, not to anybody in particular. I can let it stop being special.
"


BIG GNARLY INSIGHT ALERT!!!!!!!

Keep investigating that and 3rd path then 4th path are just around the corner!

"Interesting shift in perspective last night. Was pondering samatha practice and the need to keep an illusory sense of the continuity of sensation to go deeper. It then popped into my head, "That's what I've been doing with my gross ego awareness the whole time".
It stuck me hard that the separate-self contraction is as much of a concentration state as any samatha jhana, it just sucks most of the time. It then occurred to me that if I can break out of a samatha jhana by applying the vipassana technique and noticing suffering, non-self and impermanence, then the sense of a separate self is just another object in awareness. It isn't continuous! There are gaps. If there are gaps, it was never really me at any level! I don't have waste my life constantly protecting the damn thing!
Something feels very different right now, as if what I'd always taken to be me... isn't. And if it is not me, it is just another object in awareness. Just something happening, not to anybody in particular. I can let it stop being special.

Physically, I feel so much lighter. It's as if a vise grip that had always been cinched around my chest has just fallen off.

I am so grateful right now. "

There is something really big going on here. I can feel it from reading the post, you know?

Thanks guys!

It is truly interesting right now. I'm at work and I keep slipping into the contraction, then out again into freedom, then back in... Subjectively, it feels like my perspective is rotating in orbit of some liberating insight. Like the challenge now is first to see it clearly, then to live from there.

My insight cycles now seem to last about two days. Last night was I was definitely in a dark night, but it was oddly relaxing not having to protect myself from it. I was able to just let it happen. The sense of bodily relaxation is astounding.

Seems like your getting some good progress these days, good work! Since we're probably at about the same level, I find it very inspiring to follow your log

I've got a few questions:

1) For how long have you been practicing? I've been practicing insight meditation for maybe 3-4 months or so, and a few months of Anapanasati before that.
2) Do you still feel like a donut during A&P and Dissolution, as you probably did previously? For me, that donut-feeling seems to have become less prominent, especially compared to pre-stream entry.
3) I feel that the cycles are a lot less distinct and prominent these days, compared too previously. It's getting harder to distinguish each knowledge from each other. Do you have it the same way?