Mark P's Noting Journal
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
15 years 1 week ago #65463
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
"For better or for worse I changed my practice to trying to question as frequently as possible "what knows this?" (a practice I was assigned years ago by a Zen teacher and have dabbled with but not previously really taken on). I just try to register what ever is noticable but then let it go with the question "what knows?". This seems to result in a much less manipulative approach. Sometimes it feels as if mind and body are just hanging there in the face of the question. For now I don't get bogged down in the performance anxiety that had been getting me for awhile with the noting instructions. Recently it's been seeming like I go from 3rd to 4th nana within 10 minutes. At an all day sitting today, 3rd to 4th seemed real obvious, then for the first time it seemed likely I was catching a fairly quick shift to 5th. On the lookout for possible dukkha nanas I was surprised to find that dukkha-esque stuff was relatively subtle and easily covered over by habitual attempts to regain a better state or by distracted thought. Probably wouldn't have noticed them if not in such a state-detached mode. Since I think this is a 2nd gear practice, I wasn't sure if nana progression would still happen as with noting. Seems to. In retrospect, maybe I should have stuck through the craziness with my noting practice. But for now with momentum in my current practice, and a sense that I'm exploring approaching practice a liitle more holistically, I want to just stick with this."
Wonderful Mark. This makes me very happy.
Metta!
Wonderful Mark. This makes me very happy.
Metta!
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 1 week ago #65464
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
"In my experience the nanas passed quickly by when taking the witness perspective. That is the whole riding the jhanic arc Kenneth teaches. The jhanic arc includes the nanas that arent jhanas. 
I think you may have found your way out of the mindset of "no progress". I would allow that mindset to float on by. Note or Witness it and maybe change the pic to a hare. "
Thanks, Nick. I didn't remember (though probably had read here) that Witness is good for dukkhas. But stumbled on that out of need I guess. Seems like I'm still in the overall DK phase(s), but trying to get thru it better, such as with more exercise (which results in less sitting time) and with the practice changes. My appreciation for all that you and other Sangha leaders do here on behalf of practitioners. ~Mark
Gracias, Mu!
I think you may have found your way out of the mindset of "no progress". I would allow that mindset to float on by. Note or Witness it and maybe change the pic to a hare. "
Thanks, Nick. I didn't remember (though probably had read here) that Witness is good for dukkhas. But stumbled on that out of need I guess. Seems like I'm still in the overall DK phase(s), but trying to get thru it better, such as with more exercise (which results in less sitting time) and with the practice changes. My appreciation for all that you and other Sangha leaders do here on behalf of practitioners. ~Mark
Gracias, Mu!
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 1 week ago #65465
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
I'm journaling daily again to leave a record in advance of a meeting with Kenneth. Decided to start noting during sittings again (rather than question "what knows this?"). Previously with noting, I went through a prolonged spell of confusion and frustration over technique, so started up today with what's easiest for me, trying to hit the ground running with noting as much of anything coming up as fast as I could. Had 45 mins available.
Initially noted billowing pressures in my head, pressure of sitting, then switching among localized transient waves of tingles at various places around the body. The pulsing quality of the right to left rocking seemed more evident that usual. Noted mental images, retinal light/seeing, sounds, beginnning of thoughts. I've had a lot of problems with a knee or hip in 1/2 lotus posture lately but no problems this time. Little in the way of itches. I became conscious of a relatively spacious flexibility that allowed sensations to ... bubble up freely in awareness you might say, nothing splashy. But it seemed noteworthy compared to my previous noting where things felt subtly stuck in an effortful, self-conscious glue. Reflecting on this rekindled a familiar energy centered in my head evidently identified with directing meditation. Maybe because of the witness practice I've been doing, I observed it with some detachment but still felt like it gummed up the quality of sensations somewhat so they were no longer as freely and immediately and granularly presenting in awareness but seemed noticably more clunky. Then time was up. (I guess I ended up creating and believing in a bit of a story about the sitting, that I just related, rather than sticking with the detailed noting.)
Initially noted billowing pressures in my head, pressure of sitting, then switching among localized transient waves of tingles at various places around the body. The pulsing quality of the right to left rocking seemed more evident that usual. Noted mental images, retinal light/seeing, sounds, beginnning of thoughts. I've had a lot of problems with a knee or hip in 1/2 lotus posture lately but no problems this time. Little in the way of itches. I became conscious of a relatively spacious flexibility that allowed sensations to ... bubble up freely in awareness you might say, nothing splashy. But it seemed noteworthy compared to my previous noting where things felt subtly stuck in an effortful, self-conscious glue. Reflecting on this rekindled a familiar energy centered in my head evidently identified with directing meditation. Maybe because of the witness practice I've been doing, I observed it with some detachment but still felt like it gummed up the quality of sensations somewhat so they were no longer as freely and immediately and granularly presenting in awareness but seemed noticably more clunky. Then time was up. (I guess I ended up creating and believing in a bit of a story about the sitting, that I just related, rather than sticking with the detailed noting.)
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 6 days ago #65466
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Last night meditated for 1.5 to 2 hours. Felt some inner quiet and stillness and for at least 1/2 of the time felt like noticing non-verbally, especially since it didn't shortly result in becoming lost in thought. This is a state I've been in a number of times before where it seems like it should be kind of pleasant and satisfying, with the quiet and attentiveness, but the feeling is disjointed and a lot of disatisfaction, like something is out of whack and it should be possible to find equilibrium but it stays out of reach. I'm guessing this is one of the dukkha nanas. During the night I felt frustrated and despairing and woke up that way, with the familiar thought trains that "I need to have time to really sit and get through this but I never get to go to retreat, something always comes up to steal my vacation time or savings and it's been like that for 20 years, bla bla bla" and in no time I'm struggling with foul moods that color my life for weeks at a time. Interesting that one day of vipassana put me right back in that, just in time for the holidays 
Found Nick's great Christmas articles with the ingenious metta practice that looks like it could get past my metta aversion, and started with the pre-requisite candle meditation. Ended up doing that for 50 mins. The noting colors trick did seem to prevent thought trains, and kept the sitting fairly attentive. After about 20 mins felt some pleasure and a that this was actually fun! A little after that briefly felt a taste of that absorbed feeling that I usually forget about and tried to hone in on that but couldn't regain it. During the last 20 mins garden variety boredom and then aversion set in but curious to see what would happen if I kept on, more of the same, then out of time.
Found Nick's great Christmas articles with the ingenious metta practice that looks like it could get past my metta aversion, and started with the pre-requisite candle meditation. Ended up doing that for 50 mins. The noting colors trick did seem to prevent thought trains, and kept the sitting fairly attentive. After about 20 mins felt some pleasure and a that this was actually fun! A little after that briefly felt a taste of that absorbed feeling that I usually forget about and tried to hone in on that but couldn't regain it. During the last 20 mins garden variety boredom and then aversion set in but curious to see what would happen if I kept on, more of the same, then out of time.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 6 days ago #65467
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
I'm looking forward to asking Kenneth about the difference between 1st and 2nd gear practice, pre-path. Maybe I just need to rough through the dukkha nanas like so many others have done. It's been seeming to me like I don't have the practice resources (time or ability) to penetrate this with only noting. I end up frustrated that my practice is too weak and my circumstances too unfavorable. The appeal of questioning "What knows this?" (which I think may be comparable to "See how it does ..."?), at this point for me, is that it can undercut the whole thing before it proliferates and it's easier to remember when not sitting. Not sure though how it relates to actually getting through the dukkhas to equanimity and 1st path.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 days ago #65468
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Yesterday squeezed 1/2 hour of noting and later 1/2 hour of candle staring in between the family festivities, but they weren't memorable sittings.
This morning 1/2 hour of candle flame using the body rocking metronome to count 1 to 10 and with each count trying to be aware of focusing on the flame. Started over if I lost it. During 1st 10 mins could sometimes get to 10 and once go to 10 3x in a row. By 15 mins, some drowsiness set in; but could get at least some of most 1-10 counts. Once ended up at 20, and thought all the through at least a couple that I noticed. No strong or unusual sensations or states.
Drowsiness went away as soon as I switched to 30 mins of noting. Head sensations felt sludgy and hard to unstick from. Tried to get my attention registering from around the body and after 5 mins it started to. Noted feeling tone, that it field like a field extending out a little from my body. As usual had trouble deciding if it was pleasant or unpleasant so just decided to call it neutral even though it seemed to have a fair amount of impedence for something "neutral". Found myself aimlessly thinking after about 20 mins and wondered if I had even reached 3rd nana so tried to find tingling, discomfort or itches all around the body. Could only find tingling in various places. Had to get up to take care of something.
This morning 1/2 hour of candle flame using the body rocking metronome to count 1 to 10 and with each count trying to be aware of focusing on the flame. Started over if I lost it. During 1st 10 mins could sometimes get to 10 and once go to 10 3x in a row. By 15 mins, some drowsiness set in; but could get at least some of most 1-10 counts. Once ended up at 20, and thought all the through at least a couple that I noticed. No strong or unusual sensations or states.
Drowsiness went away as soon as I switched to 30 mins of noting. Head sensations felt sludgy and hard to unstick from. Tried to get my attention registering from around the body and after 5 mins it started to. Noted feeling tone, that it field like a field extending out a little from my body. As usual had trouble deciding if it was pleasant or unpleasant so just decided to call it neutral even though it seemed to have a fair amount of impedence for something "neutral". Found myself aimlessly thinking after about 20 mins and wondered if I had even reached 3rd nana so tried to find tingling, discomfort or itches all around the body. Could only find tingling in various places. Had to get up to take care of something.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 2 days ago #65469
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Yesterday, had an a.m. software deployment, only 15 mins of a.m. noting. After some nice post-holiday family time, slept thru 15 mins of candle "gazing".
Today, a.m.: 1 hr candle gazing, followed by 10 mins of "what knows this?" hoping to take that into the day. I tried to just follow whatever perception of the flame was happening in response to eyes nearly shutting, opening wider, going in and out of focus (and whatever else shapes the perception of the flame). I'm on tail end, hopefully, of a 2 day migraine and interesting that the flame had a lot of jagged electricity in it today.During last 10 mins attempted very effortful, focused concentration. Developing some concentration feels good right now.
Today, a.m.: 1 hr candle gazing, followed by 10 mins of "what knows this?" hoping to take that into the day. I tried to just follow whatever perception of the flame was happening in response to eyes nearly shutting, opening wider, going in and out of focus (and whatever else shapes the perception of the flame). I'm on tail end, hopefully, of a 2 day migraine and interesting that the flame had a lot of jagged electricity in it today.During last 10 mins attempted very effortful, focused concentration. Developing some concentration feels good right now.
