Mark P's Noting Journal
- mpavoreal
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15 years 4 months ago #65388
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
This practice has often not gone the way I thought it would or should. I always thought being a serious Buddhist means going to retreats, period. I never thought that becoming a householder would mean 25 years of rarely being able to go to retreats. I never thought my practice could survive a socio-economic transition that threatens to keep me glued to a computer at least 6 days a week. I didn't know that part of the practice would be waking up Angle Heart-style to the discovery that I was autistic and so is most of my family. (That may sound like a complaint, but the practice's role in helping me to see and work with that is amazing to me.) I never thought I'd devote an hour a day come h or high water for 10+ years to discover that I'm a chronic yogi and that my learning challenges have followed me into meditation practice. I never thought that really trying to face and work with my blocks and hangups about doing practice so that it works would reveal that I'm a psychological-emotional wreck in some ways.
Meditation was supposed to be better than and beyond all that and deliver me from all that.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65389
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Yesterday Kenneth patiently tried to teach me a new meditation technique. The Mahasi noting technique I've been mulling over, dabbling with and finally picking up steam with (I thought) over a 30 year stretch. I think I have an understanding of it and imagine that if I could just go to some friggin retreats I'd really get somewhere with it. (When I went to 4 & 6 day vipassana retreats a year ago the teachers seemed happy with my progress, having some kind of A&P experience in the 2nd one.) When Kenneth taught me the Wheel, I was right back to failing in school. It was completely new, I didn't understand it and didn't think I could do it right. But I'm completely confident Kenneth knows what he's doing and that his instructions when followed right, work. So I wake up in the night having a reaction to some pesticides to a bunch of blueberries I had eaten, freaking out about what I had read that pesticides can do to your nervous system and how now I'm going to be even more cognitively impaired, which put me over the edge into a fundamental anxiety reaction that I can't do the practice and Kenneth is going to drop me as student.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65390
by mpavoreal
And I was thinking, god, all I want to do is meditate and find peace and instead I find out that I've got messy emotional hangups, and transference issues, and I'm about to go crazy with anxiety. So, I got up and read KFD for a few minutes and comforted myself briefly with some food. Didn't help. So, lay down, scoped out the sensations: seemingly overwhelming combination of aversion (to the pesticide reaction) and anxiety. The aversion seemed harder to face, so I committed to opening to it completely and sticking with it with noting wherever it would go. I was afraid the sensations were so extreme they might be dangerous for someone my age, but such is life and death. Just kept feeling the sensations and noting Aversion: "complete aversion, overwhelming aversion". Don't know how long it took, but eventually the food reaction sensations were still there but I was just spent on the aversion, it was like there was only so much aversion my body could produce at one stretch, felt calm. I remembered what Kenneth said yesterday, it doesn't matter what you're mind is doing, how messy or neurotic it is. Anything is a fine object for noticing/noting. Meditation, welcome to my life.
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
And I was thinking, god, all I want to do is meditate and find peace and instead I find out that I've got messy emotional hangups, and transference issues, and I'm about to go crazy with anxiety. So, I got up and read KFD for a few minutes and comforted myself briefly with some food. Didn't help. So, lay down, scoped out the sensations: seemingly overwhelming combination of aversion (to the pesticide reaction) and anxiety. The aversion seemed harder to face, so I committed to opening to it completely and sticking with it with noting wherever it would go. I was afraid the sensations were so extreme they might be dangerous for someone my age, but such is life and death. Just kept feeling the sensations and noting Aversion: "complete aversion, overwhelming aversion". Don't know how long it took, but eventually the food reaction sensations were still there but I was just spent on the aversion, it was like there was only so much aversion my body could produce at one stretch, felt calm. I remembered what Kenneth said yesterday, it doesn't matter what you're mind is doing, how messy or neurotic it is. Anything is a fine object for noticing/noting. Meditation, welcome to my life.
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65391
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Here's a good talk by ajahn chah that made me think of your latest journal entry:
ajahnchah.org/book/Living_With_Cobra1.php
ajahnchah.org/book/Living_With_Cobra1.php
- kennethfolk
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65392
by kennethfolk
Replied by kennethfolk on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
"it doesn't matter what you're mind is doing, how messy or neurotic it is. Anything is a fine object for noticing/noting. Meditation, welcome to my life."-mpavoreal
You've got it, Mark. Simple. Bulletproof. If it happens, note it. If something else happens, note that, too.
We aren't noting to get to a place where it's easier to note. We're just noting. There is no second step.
Keep up the good work. With this kind of commitment, you cannot fail. Every moment of noting is a success. Notch your belt.
Kenneth
You've got it, Mark. Simple. Bulletproof. If it happens, note it. If something else happens, note that, too.
We aren't noting to get to a place where it's easier to note. We're just noting. There is no second step.
Keep up the good work. With this kind of commitment, you cannot fail. Every moment of noting is a success. Notch your belt.
Kenneth
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65393
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Thanks, Mumuwu! That's a very concise and powerfully to the point speech by Achaan Chah. Very worth absorbing.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65394
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
"We aren't noting to get to a place where it's easier to note. We're just noting. There is no second step." Kenneth, don't know where I would be without you regularly pointing right to the simplicity that I'm too complicated to stay in touch with. Thanks so much for all of the ways that you teach and help.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65395
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
While on a long walk from a bus stop to home yesterday, realized I could get away with noting quietly out loud. First chance to try this. Very helpful. Meditating while walking somewhere is usually hit or miss with me. Some days I'm there, others it's just a bust. But I think noting out loud will make a big difference with consistency/continuity around walking -- also driving. It will be interesting to further confirm this.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65396
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
am sitting: 35 mins. First chance to try the visual strobing technique while awake. Might better understand what Kenneth meant by hard stops, wasn't getting that at all during initial attempt with him yesterday. Fortunately, Kenneth gave me a video of the instructions so I can review that some more as I go. One thing I forgot to ask was what kind of verbal noting to do. I guess I'll just note what I'm seeing. I don't have an intellectual understanding of this practice. That might be good. Had atrial fibrillation at times the last couple of days for first time in a couple of years. In the past that has caused intense aversion and anxiety. So far just been noting it (when I'm not working).
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65397
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
My family and I are leaving for Adirondacks vacation. A nice break from computers! Likely to be a great chance to extend practice throughout each day. Back in a week, inshallah.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65398
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
My family has been through a challenging year, so it was great to share a good time with them in a glorious setting. Changes at work. Have to assure enough focus on work to take care of business and care of the family. Maybe not as much time for formal practice for awhile.
On vacation, occassionally would notice that I wasn't noticing, then I'd try noting for awhile, not usually for long before losing it again. Sat everday usually for at least an hour. Started with noting 4 foundations for 1/2 an hour or more then easing into visual strobing. Sometimes felt like I didn't know what I was doing with the strobing practice, other times I'd think I might be starting to get it. Tried not to buy into either idea too much, but just keep attempting the practice as described. Noting makes me feel good, strobing makes me feel uncertain.
On vacation, occassionally would notice that I wasn't noticing, then I'd try noting for awhile, not usually for long before losing it again. Sat everday usually for at least an hour. Started with noting 4 foundations for 1/2 an hour or more then easing into visual strobing. Sometimes felt like I didn't know what I was doing with the strobing practice, other times I'd think I might be starting to get it. Tried not to buy into either idea too much, but just keep attempting the practice as described. Noting makes me feel good, strobing makes me feel uncertain.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65399
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Early in the vacation had a series of logistical setbacks on a work-related carry over that I felt I couldn't just drop. Finally I found myself stuck in a small mountain town with several "free wireless access" points that didn't work anywhere. Cell reception that didn't work. And no way to contact my family who weren't scheduled to pick me up for hours. A beautiful flow of defeatist thoughts, recriminations, gloomy observations, impulses for anger itching to burst forth. No way this object was going to play hard to get. Walked around town for 3 hours of manual labor unsticking from the content and returning to noting.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 4 months ago #65400
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Yesterday am sitting 1 hour: haven't been able to find hard stops in visual strobes because the strobes look like disturbances in a continuing visual field, maybe like a mud puddle. There's a peak point in the disturbance and after that there are settling vibrations until the next splash caused by a strobe stirs things up and settles out again. At no point does the visual appearance of vibrations reach some end point. Today the strobe seemed like a brief flash of lightning against a darker background. The flash was quick and didn't endure, so there definitely was a break. When the visuals of the strobe look like that, then I can relate to looking for the break durations.
Today, am sitting: 35 mins. 5 hours sleep last night. Up late and early working on a deadline. Took more of a samatha approach to body sensations to help chill the body and buffer it some from stress. At work noting competitive thoughts and feelings and finding that the noting allows some disengaging from them. Noting thoughts and feelings that indicate a budding belief like that my practice is not very serious because I'm so taken up with busy activities. Noting those sensations without whipping them up into something more ardent, not buying into them very much.
Today, am sitting: 35 mins. 5 hours sleep last night. Up late and early working on a deadline. Took more of a samatha approach to body sensations to help chill the body and buffer it some from stress. At work noting competitive thoughts and feelings and finding that the noting allows some disengaging from them. Noting thoughts and feelings that indicate a budding belief like that my practice is not very serious because I'm so taken up with busy activities. Noting those sensations without whipping them up into something more ardent, not buying into them very much.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65401
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Wed a.m. sitting 35 mins. Started with general noting, then eyes blinking around the mid-point. Noted the brain looking for chances to work out an explanation of the eyes strobing practice. (I think it has long since worked out explanations of the other practices I've done.) Kept an eye out for explanation seeking kicking into geer. Not fighting it, just noting and returning to observing the eyes blinking.
Thurs a.m. sitting 65 mins. Started with more general noting, paying attention to include all 4 foundations. Noticed that some recent tendency toward discouragement results in sloppy, dull noting and resolved to increase energy and attentiveness. After about 40 mins switched to just trying to observe the eyes blinking with open attentiveness. Takes an effort for me to stay with investigating one selected range of objects without lapsing into inattentiveness. Occassionally briefly noted thoughts or sensations that were actually taking predominance then attempted to return to the selected focus on blinking.
Thurs a.m. sitting 65 mins. Started with more general noting, paying attention to include all 4 foundations. Noticed that some recent tendency toward discouragement results in sloppy, dull noting and resolved to increase energy and attentiveness. After about 40 mins switched to just trying to observe the eyes blinking with open attentiveness. Takes an effort for me to stay with investigating one selected range of objects without lapsing into inattentiveness. Occassionally briefly noted thoughts or sensations that were actually taking predominance then attempted to return to the selected focus on blinking.
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65402
by mumuwu
Replied by mumuwu on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
The way Kenneth explained the eye blinking thing to me was that it was introducing interference into whatever state you are in so you don't get absorbed into the state.. So if you are doing that it allows you to break through into the next strata.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65403
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Interesting, thanks mumuwu.
12 hours w/out a break on 5.5 hours sleep at work yesterday. Been like that this week. Possible to note in both H & H circumstances. Considering and applying that around the edges prevented some 2nd arrow yesterday. The body recoiled at the alarm for sitting this a.m. Seems like it actually got used to getting enough rest on vacation last week and now is wondering what's up with the mis-use. Before vacation it just went with the program.
a.m. sitting 1 hour: lots of dullness and distraction. Kept trying to rouse attention and in-touchness with objects and return to noting. Resorted to fast noting which helped. In final 20 mins applied eye blinking while continuing generalized noting. By end of sitting felt like sensitivity was approaching level that I usual start a sitting with. Greatful for this opportunity to practice with my karma!
12 hours w/out a break on 5.5 hours sleep at work yesterday. Been like that this week. Possible to note in both H & H circumstances. Considering and applying that around the edges prevented some 2nd arrow yesterday. The body recoiled at the alarm for sitting this a.m. Seems like it actually got used to getting enough rest on vacation last week and now is wondering what's up with the mis-use. Before vacation it just went with the program.
a.m. sitting 1 hour: lots of dullness and distraction. Kept trying to rouse attention and in-touchness with objects and return to noting. Resorted to fast noting which helped. In final 20 mins applied eye blinking while continuing generalized noting. By end of sitting felt like sensitivity was approaching level that I usual start a sitting with. Greatful for this opportunity to practice with my karma!
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65404
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Technical challenges dragged on my goal to get my overdue project done on Sat & Sun so I could enjoy the U.S. holiday on Monday with the family. They'll be holidaying without me, while I spend another sunny day in front of a computer. When I was near yelling obscenities and breaking things, took the chance to sit for an hour with lots of energy (my favorite). In conceptual mode I was depressed, frustrated, furious. In a more-or-less vipassana mode the stream of sensations and feeling tones was so varied it was much harder to stick to such narrow and fixed state definitions.
Kenneth's pointers about the eyes give some more clues. Noticed that my eyes were down at first and figured I was chilling and restoring more than investigating. After awhile waited to see if the eyes would rise and eventually they did. Wondering if they would go into the blinking zone was enough to encourage them along. Continued the rest of the sitting with blinking. Starting to get used to blinking while sitting. Doesn't bother me lately and interested to see what's different about it.
Kenneth's pointers about the eyes give some more clues. Noticed that my eyes were down at first and figured I was chilling and restoring more than investigating. After awhile waited to see if the eyes would rise and eventually they did. Wondering if they would go into the blinking zone was enough to encourage them along. Continued the rest of the sitting with blinking. Starting to get used to blinking while sitting. Doesn't bother me lately and interested to see what's different about it.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65405
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Finally made some time to review a Skype recording Kenneth made of the instructions from our last meeting, walking me thru intro to the Wheel (which I think refers to the mind's natural cycling between gross and subtle, concentrated and not, and the range between samatha and vipassana). I really did not grasp enough of the meeting at the time to get what Kenneth had systematically, patiently and clearly presented. So being able to review the recording and replay main parts is invaluable.
After a few encounters with Kenneth you know you're dealing with someone who is very down to earth, uncharismatic and a regular guy in the best sense. But re-watching the Skype session, I was struck by Kenneth's remarkable patience and presence. It's clear that he loves teaching, applies systematic intilligence to it, and cares about his students down to the intricate details of their individual practice. Even ones like me who offer a low scholarship dana. I sure hope I can put the instructions to good use.
After a few encounters with Kenneth you know you're dealing with someone who is very down to earth, uncharismatic and a regular guy in the best sense. But re-watching the Skype session, I was struck by Kenneth's remarkable patience and presence. It's clear that he loves teaching, applies systematic intilligence to it, and cares about his students down to the intricate details of their individual practice. Even ones like me who offer a low scholarship dana. I sure hope I can put the instructions to good use.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65406
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Tried following Kenneth's instructions for the Wheel (with eye blinking) a few times today and it went remarkably like he said it would in the recorded practice session, with a cycle of waxing and waning concentration, going around every several minutes. Tried doing it with eyes open while walking and that seemed fine. Seems to work while typing too
Odd day, with circumstances I don't favor settling in all day, I figured I'd be thinking I was depressed or frustrated. Instead an almost manically hyper intense energy has been pushing up into my chest, throat and especially forehead and temples most of the day, even now. Not sure if I'll be able to sleep, and not sure if this is meditation related. Maybe I'm just manic. It made me do more sitting than I intended to. Probably tomorrow I'll be doing 12 hours in front of the computer. Interesting to see how this energy meets that.
- mumuwu
- Topic Author
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65408
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Interesting question, didn't turn out to be, unless A&P cycle can be mostly manic energy and not much (just a little) boost in awareness. The therapist I see monthly offered the theory that it was displaced anger and frustration. Continuing with sitting and working with noting and the wheel during my big deal project mania at work. Not much to report right now. Might not be thrilled with my progress of insight, but long experience has shown my mind states can definitely get a lot worse. So, keeping up with the sitting.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65409
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Thoughts of discouragement this morning (over idea that relentless, ramped up computer work is letting the steam out of my practice), then found Kenneth's and Chris's 2 posts on discouragement, hot off the press, and felt bucked up. Started with noting and seemed only intermittently concentrated. After 10+ mins, started feeling like I was in a groove, but noticed that attention to detail was not very continuous. Started getting some of the low-key energetic things, neck spontaneously loosening & rotating.
I usually wait until a transition from noting to the Wheel practice happens on its own, (though I encourage it with interest about when it might start, if it starts to get late). It started on its own today, but only had 40 mins to sit and I had been more absorbed in some kind of samatha-leaning noting, definitely not keenly precise. So, only had about 10 mins of the wheel before times up. Failed to remember to be mindful much at work today. Very caught up in the cacaphony of problems.
40 min p.m. outdoor walk. Irritated at the thought that I would be lost in thought most of the walk, so started off with resolve to do the "what will be the next thought?" practice. That worked real well for the 1st 1/2 of the walk. Most thoughts started with an image of a person in my life. A parade of them. But also just the pictures from sounds and feelings, imagining cars from sounds and feet from sensations. Verbal-only thoughts were less common but showed up on a different stage. Also more fleeting non-"spoken" and non-image thoughts, harder to catch. But all could be caught pretty well during 1st 15 mins. Like watching a 3 ring circus. During 2nd 1/2 of the walk, the steady continuity started to wane but it was still an effective practice.
I usually wait until a transition from noting to the Wheel practice happens on its own, (though I encourage it with interest about when it might start, if it starts to get late). It started on its own today, but only had 40 mins to sit and I had been more absorbed in some kind of samatha-leaning noting, definitely not keenly precise. So, only had about 10 mins of the wheel before times up. Failed to remember to be mindful much at work today. Very caught up in the cacaphony of problems.
40 min p.m. outdoor walk. Irritated at the thought that I would be lost in thought most of the walk, so started off with resolve to do the "what will be the next thought?" practice. That worked real well for the 1st 1/2 of the walk. Most thoughts started with an image of a person in my life. A parade of them. But also just the pictures from sounds and feelings, imagining cars from sounds and feet from sensations. Verbal-only thoughts were less common but showed up on a different stage. Also more fleeting non-"spoken" and non-image thoughts, harder to catch. But all could be caught pretty well during 1st 15 mins. Like watching a 3 ring circus. During 2nd 1/2 of the walk, the steady continuity started to wane but it was still an effective practice.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65410
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
PM sitting, about 1/2 hour. Intense feelings and thoughts of discouragement and frustration. Starting noting them intently in dual style, noting the intense aversion along with the sensations. Concentrating on and investigating the aversive feelings changed them to almost pleasurable within 5 mins. Went right into the wheel. Spent last 15 mins of the sitting lapsing into sleep.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65411
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
Had a short sitting in the morning so went right into the wheel starting as usual with the eyes-down samatha bracket. Don't usually have trouble finding the flutter-mid-zone (sweet spot?), but didn't come readily today, so tried hanging at the eyes up and slight open top of the bracket for a few minutes. Then found a blinking midpoint on the way down. Sat like that for about 15 mins trying to be aware of the strobing, briefly acknowledging some other sensations that took the stage and returning. Then spent 5 mins in general noting. Resolved, as usual, to try to remember to be mindful during the coming day. Had more luck with that and made an extra effort to remember to note at work yesterday. Sat for about an hour last night with a mix of Friday night drive and tired body and mind. I could stay somewhat awake with general noting, but felt strobing would put me to sleep, so didn't try it.
- mpavoreal
- Topic Author
15 years 3 months ago #65412
by mpavoreal
Replied by mpavoreal on topic RE: Mark P's Noting Journal
15 days w/out a day off from work and 10 to 12 hour days pushing this project to deadline. This is starting to overwhelm my coping repertoire. For the 1st time in my life I'm considering anti-anxiety/anti-depressants. This sweatshop lifestyle started 15 years ago when I 1st got into IT. I learned more than 10 years ago to keep a daily practice going even during extreme schedules. Dutifully digging my chronic yogi grooves. My practice has felt in the doldrums for about a month. So the last couple of weeks I've just been trying to note anything I can whenever I can remember to. Mostly feeling unsuccessful. Lots of chances to note disatisfaction with my practice and craving for some better achievements and experiences. Even in the middle of being tortured by work and worried about being unemployed and homeless, I'm actually more worried about my friggin practice and wondering everyday, probably every hour how I'm going to ramp it up to get out of these ruts of unconsciousness. One thing that's been dawning on me the last few days, is how deeply I associate practice with being alone and sitting or walking or retreating rather than every-minute life. These are deeply ingrained assumptions that go back 40 years when I 1st got this pathetically chronic affliction. Got to really notice this hiding-in-plain-site stuff. edit: anyone know what impact SSRIs have on ability to notice and practice, if any?
