Andy's practice journal

I'm still having a lot of sleepiness in my sits. In one sit a few days ago, however, I got sleepy initially, then suddenly came awake/aware for a few, but then got sleepy again. After these sleepy sits are over, I notice a heavy shakiness in my chest, and I feel a bit disoriented for a short time. Sometimes when the alarm goes off in the mornings, I've noticed that same shaky vibration a few times.

At lunch, I had a chance get out and do some walking meditation. Started with concentration, and then walked and noted, then sat on a bench and just tried to lightly notice where my attention was going.

When I sat down on the bench, I had a sense of being very present in the present moment. Stuff was happening, and I seemed to be on top of noticing it, for the most part. If I eased up on my noticing, then thoughts would start to creep in and I'd get lost in them for a short while. If I noticed too intently or noted too fast (or sometimes even if I noted at all), then it felt forced, and I would lose that synchronized, in-the-moment feeling pretty quickly. I didn't drift out of the moment very fast, so I was able to play with this, trying too hard, easing back, and then trying to stay right in sync. I needed to get back to work, so I wasn't able to do this very long, but it sure felt like it could just go on and on.

Had a really hard time with sleep last night. Kept waking up, had lots of dreams, my body was hot, and it was hard to lay still for long periods. The alarm woke me up in the morning, and I had lots of unpleasant sensations in my chest, shakiness, grogginess, disorientation. I hit the snooze and then tried to concentrate on my breath, and my focus shifted to this mass of flickering, fluttering, chaotic mass of sensations in the center of my awareness. I was not able to really maintain my awareness on this and kept drifting back to sleep. After the alarm rang again and I got up, this faded away.

The body buzzing and unpleasantness remained in the background during the day. I couldn't tell if I was getting sick or if these sensations are stage-related. Later, I felt pressure in my head and an occasional headache. I'm leaning more towards sick.

The vague flu-like symptoms and a sore throat from last week faded by the end of Saturday. Still not sure what was going on with that. Coincidentally, over the weekend, I had several sits where I got sleepy but woke part-way through, and was then able to note and notice. More interestingly, I also had a couple of sessions that never got sleepy at all. This is a definitely a change from last week, where sleepiness was the rule.

Did more walking meditation in the park today. Felt quite concentrated and focused before I even started walking. Started with noting, which soon felt ponderous and heavy, and quickly moved to noticing with a very light touch. I was noticing at a fairly high rate, sometimes with many, many sensations, thoughts and feelings per second. Steady background sounds (wind, traffic sounds, etc) were presenting fairly slowly, maybe once per second. Sudden sounds, touch sensations, and visual sensation would arise and pass very quickly. These would sometimes spawn related thoughts, images, internal talk, and feelings. These related sensations would then themselves sometimes spawn other related sensations. It seemed like this process was unrolling in real-time as I paid attention to it, but I'm sure there was lots of stuff I was missing.

Over the last few day, I've been feeling many more energetic sensations: tingles, rushes, sudden falling sensations, vertigo, flashes of bliss. I've also had longer periods of strong mindfulness, and have not taken things personally that usually might have sucked me into a reaction.

Short chains of Dependent Origination play out often both on-cushion and in daily life. An image may trigger a thought which brings up a feeling which may bring up more thoughts. All of this happens pretty quickly, with three or four links coming up in a second or two. I seem less embedded in my own stuff in general, and seem to be able to be much more present in meetings, conversations, social situations, but this comes and goes.

Last night, I woke up shortly after falling asleep, with periodic, sudden, massive rushes of tingles, chills, and bliss. These would hit me, fade away, then I'd get lost in thought, and suddenly it would repeat. Eventually, I rolled over eventually, since I wanted to sleep, and it still took quite a while to fall asleep. I was aware of drifting in and out of sleep all night, and then in the morning, I woke up (partially) before the alarm for the second day in a row in jhana.

Hi folks,

It's been almost two weeks since I've posted updates.

In that time, I've boosted my time to sometimes 3 hrs/day of practice. I'm sitting in the car for 10 minutes prior to commuting to and from work, and then either watch my breath or note the entire 30 minute drive. Since the weather has been mild, I've been doing an hour of walking meditation at lunchtime to keep from getting sleepy. In the evenings, I'm doing an occasional extra formal session.

This week, I marked two years of constant every-day practice, averaging almost two hours a day. I've put in almost 1500 hours of practice in that two years, primarily noting, but increasingly concentration.

Truth be told, I'm feeling burned out by all of this. I've lost motivation for a lot of things that I used to be interested in, and seem to be focusing primarily on getting more practice time in. Sometimes, it feels like the next breakthrough is around the corner. More often, however, doubts are constant. Expectations are likely a big contributor to this.

I'm curious about putting down my daily practice for a while. I'm tired of the grind, but at the same time, I hesitate to cut down my practice. I'm not sure what I need right now, but more practice doesn't seem to be it.

Does any of this resonate with anyone? Has anyone gone through 'burnout' and come out the other side? Any comments, hints, tips, suggestions, empathy, snickering appreciated.

A former teacher of mine said the quote "give the dog a bone" meaning the mind. When I was burnt out on a none silent 3 month's informal retreat I did with him meditating 6-8h a day. On the retreat I did it by buying a few novel's, pageturner's and read in between the session's. It helped a lot.

i don't know what your bone is. But try doing other things you like for a while and don't be afraid to cut back on practice time .when we push too hard with will power the joy of practice goes away. At least that's my experience. Life is a joyous adventure it shouldn't be a grind for some future goal of enlightenment. That's my 2 cents and i might not always live by them myself

Well, this is interesting. Last Thursday, after posting that last message, I was able to let go a bit of practicing, and without warning, I had a very interesting experience.

During an otherwise unremarkable session, I experienced a fruition type that I've never had before. I felt three distinctive pulses or shakes or wiggles, and then very suddenly was back in A&P. There was a similar rush of cool tingles and crystal clarity as with past fruitions. However, all previous fruition have been single pulses or cutouts.This triple wiggle was odd enough that I took notice of it for a long while. I then continued with 30 more minutes of meditation with lots of dreaminess.

After the session, though, I noticed a lot of body bliss, mellowness, peacefulness. Several hour later, that peace was still there. I was able to watch my responses, reactions, and thoughts in real-time during several long conversations. The body bliss built to a fairly noticeable level, and now, five days later, I can still bring it up on demand.

[cont...]

[...cont]

I've found that I now have a big boost in concentration. Over the weekend, I discovered I once again had access to hard jhana after months and months of only weak access. I'll continue to play with it to see how it hold ups.

Most interestingly, over the last few day, I've noticed my body carrying out actions all by itself, with any effort on my part to control what what happening. In the shower, I was fairly amazed to find my hands washing my head all by themselves. I've noticed this a few other times as well, mostly when I'm performing some action that I've done tons of times, e.g. washing my hands, turning the steering wheel. When this no-self stuff happens, I also cannot find a trace of the self in the given experience. It's just plainly clear that there is no self there, and that all there is is experience.

I'm curious to see how this shakes out. It's not clear to me if I'm having review fruitions in my sits. The nyanas don't seem to develop clearly, and it's not obvious that I'm starting in A&P.

Very cool. Staying tuned...

Sounds great Andy. What a little letting go can "do". Looking forward to hearing more.

"

In the shower, I was fairly amazed to find my hands washing my head all by themselves. I've noticed this a few other times as well, mostly when I'm performing some action that I've done tons of times, e.g. washing my hands, turning the steering wheel. When this no-self stuff happens, I also cannot find a trace of the self in the given experience.
- andymr"

Well done Andy!

You are describing an important insight, a glimpse into the true nature of every experience, seeing it fee of conceptualization.

I would advice you to hold this experience loosely during the following days. There is a tendency for us to try to hold to these realizations too tightly, killing the naturalness and the flow. Just gently pay attention to effortlessness of the experience unfolding itself without you having to do anything. Do not use your attention penetratingly, but very loosely and effortlessly, like you were just watching clouds pass by. This period in your practice can teach you a lot about looseness and non-effort so you can recognize any subtle clinging and striving later.

See how there are infinite number of small details in every aspect of the experience, every sight and sound and each of them marvelous and arising spontaneously in your field of awareness. You don't have to imagine the world, it is manifested automatically to you. No effort is required, so you can stand back and enjoy the show.

Even thoughts are magnificent as they suddenly appear out of nothing in perfect clarity and even though one might say that they leave a lot of turbulence behind in the body and mind, but those little tornados of mind stuff are perfect as well. Arising and passing constantly and not leaving a trace behind, this way they liberate themselves if we do not get in the way.

Seeing everything like this is pure joy and liberation.

Enjoy the fruits of your practice!

Very kewl Andy!
Looking forward to seeing how this develops.

Thanks folks! I appreciate the encouragement.

@Antero re: holding loosely. I discovered right away that any attempt at close scrutiny killed the experience. As long as I marveled at what was happening and didn't look closely, and a sort of sideways attention, keeping my hands in the periphery of my vision seemed to allow me to look at little at what they were doing.

I'm not yet sure how to hold loosely enough to allow experience to happen without any manipulation. What seems to happen is that those little tornados of mind suck me in and and before I know it, I'm caught in a long chain of thoughts.

I'll play with the effortlessness. Thanks for all the hints and pointers.

Morning sit: noting 4 foundations, 4 notes for each for sensations, vedana, feelings/mindstates, thoughts. Noticed that feelings and thoughts seemed much easier to note. Continued noting on the drive in, and to my pleasant surprise, I found that I could still note feelings/mindstates pretty well. In fact, I was pretty surprised at how many were arising and how fast they were coming up. I have a hard time noting feelings most of the time, and today, they just flowed.

Off cushion, if I stopped and paid attention, there was a constant stream of emotional stuff passing through.

<grasping>
It's probably way too early to tell, but all of this feels like some kind of emotional opening. I'm feeling some pre-disappointment already, since most of these sorts of openings and experiences pass away. I don't want this to go away.
</grasping>

Lunch sit: some cycling, but hard to tell if it was review fruitions. Nothing obvious except sleepiness.

Later, in the afternoon, lots of pressure inside my head near the back and top, strong pressure in third eye area, sort of a slow pulsing at times.

Also, I noticed the physical symptoms of a sort of nervous agitation, but not the emotional aspect of it. Later, I realized that this may have been normal cycling - I also noticed a heavy drumbeat-like vibration in my chest. Again, pretty much sensations only, little emotional involvement.

By evening, the sensitivity to the constant stream of emotions and mindstates had pretty much gone away. Easy come, easy go.

Wednesday, Oct 10

Noting on the way to work was disconnected, unfocused and was easy to drift into long chains of thought. Never really felt like I was watching it. Instead, felt fairly embedded.

30 minute lunch sit: started with concentration, and switched to noting. Never really passed through nyanas that I could tell. Never got sleepy, though. Instead, things felt pretty focused throughout the entire sit, but fairly solid and unchanging. I haven't had a sit like this in a long time. It reminded me of sits early in a path right after review was done.

Noting on the way home from work was very similar to noting in the morning - unfocused, embedded.

Thursday, October 11

Woke up before the alarm and was able to jump directly to hard first jhana in under a second. When I started noting, got colored eyelid lights within five seconds of noting. None of this really developed much further though. On the way to work, I had occasional spontaneous body tingling, a huge amount of exuberance, excitement, rapid thoughts, quick bursts of feelings. Very much felt like a manic off-cushion A&P.

This faded away through the morning, and was gone by afternoon.

I'm still getting occasional off-cushion not-in-control experiences, primarily quick glimpses of my body carrying out an action without any conscious intent on my part. Mostly, they seem to involve my hands performing some task I've done countless times, but I sometime I notice my body just sitting there, or just driving and it appears as if I'm an observer of it, and the body could very well belong to someone else. These glimpses tend to be noticed in my peripheral vision and any attempt to look closely collapses the thing and 'I'm' back.

"I'm still getting occasional off-cushion not-in-control experiences, primarily quick glimpses of my body carrying out an action without any conscious intent on my part. Mostly, they seem to involve my hands performing some task I've done countless times, but I sometime I notice my body just sitting there, or just driving and it appears as if I'm an observer of it, and the body could very well belong to someone else. These glimpses tend to be noticed in my peripheral vision and any attempt to look closely collapses the thing and 'I'm' back.

"

Happening to me right now as well, but I have had this happen in the past so it doesn't freak me out as much as it used to. You get used to it. Actually happening with talking to me lately. Few instances where words just flow, I answer someones questions very satisfactorily, they are happy, but I have no idea who said the responses, and sometimes can't quite remember what I said. Also, today I heard my voice when I was speaking like it was not mine as well, very much like listening to someone else talk, but like you said, once you catch it, it collapses back.

Mon, Oct 15

Well, the manic A&P-like high well and truly disappeared. Friday was nothing special. Sits on Friday and Saturday were pretty solid-feeling. The Saturday sit in particular didn't bring up any clear progression through the cycle, but I did get fairly focused. Exactly what I was focused on wasn't very clear to me, but there were few thoughts, and sensations were just arising.

On Sunday afternoon, I sat for an hour, then did another hour of walking meditation in the park. It really felt like high equanimity for about a half-hour of that walk. Noting was too heavy, just noticing was still too heavy. Anything that caused mind/thought movements was seen as clumsy and unwieldy. The best was simply to rest and see that everything just is and doesn't need anything from me.

By evening, the equanimity high was gone, self was deeply present, annoyed, angry, and frustrated. Was able to finish my Sunday routine and go to bed at a reasonable hour.

No motivation whatsoever to practice over the last two days, very low energy in general, don't feel rested after a full night's sleep. Feeling a little light-headed, and having a really hard time concentrating on work.

Sadness, lack of motivation, fear, and almost felt like crying at times throughout the morning and afternoon. Just wanted to be home rather than at work, but how would this be any different at home?

Things didn't get much better when I got home. Still tired, wanting to eat for comfort. I'm surprised at the strength and stickiness of my depressive thoughts and feelings. I wouldn't have thought that things could turn around so quickly from last Sunday.

I did get a Rewire session and some noting in before bed, but nothing really substantial.

Don't be hard on yourself with your practice at this point. Motivation will get low, because it starts to feel like it doesn't "do anything." The amazing states and stages you have access to start to become somewhat mundane (at least in my experience), so it feels like there is no point. The only point now is for momentum. So keep sitting, even if its only 15-30 minutes a day. Practice off-cushion is key, even if it doesn't feel like practice.

"Don't be hard on yourself with your practice at this point. Motivation will get low, because it starts to feel like it doesn't "do anything." The amazing states and stages you have access to start to become somewhat mundane (at least in my experience), so it feels like there is no point. The only point now is for momentum. So keep sitting, even if its only 15-30 minutes a day. Practice off-cushion is key, even if it doesn't feel like practice. "

I get the "no motivation because it feels like it doesn't do anything" part. I can handle that, since it's been getting more and more mundane, and so it's not a surprise anymore.

However, I've got no motivation and I feel like crap both physically and emotionally. One one hand, I'm embedded in this and unmotivated. On the other hand, I can see that I'm struggling hard against not being motivated and against all the feelings and sensations, and can also see that I'm embedded in this.

It's this bizarre situation where I'm deeply embedded in something and and also can see (part of the time) that I'm deeply embedded in it. The seeing doesn't help so much with the disembedding, and I can't get up enough of a noting practice going to see the crappy sensations clearly.

I bet I'm getting sick.

Your frustration and sense of embedded-ness is actually a good thing, Andy. It is pointing at something critical. It's telling you to pay attention to it, that it has become a hurdle, a test, a matter that needs to be discovered and resolved. What do you think it might be pointing to? What is it that you don't yet grok? Why do you feel frustrated at feeling embedded even though you can see it happening?

This is your koan now.

An followup to post #620...

I had thought I might be getting sick. Sure enough: I went to the doctor who diagnosed a long-term, low-grade sinus infection. Explains a whole lot over the last week or so.

I see the interaction of a number of things conspiring to bring about the low points of the last few days. First, the major cycle I'm in seems to be in a Dark Night-ish phase. Second, the regular ongoing cycling also hit Dark Night at the same time. Finally, the physical symptoms of the sinus infection came at just the right time. Lo and behold - an amazingly sticky embeddedness and all-around crappiness, lack of motivation, loss of focus and concentration.

I felt better for a day once I saw the doctor, but a day after that, I was stuck again.

Here's where what Chris wrote becomes more relevant to me. The stuckness is what I need to be paying attention to. It keeps coming up and coming up for me. That's a hint. Perhaps it's time to pay attention to it? Otherwise, the lessons will repeat until I understand them.

Thanks for the koan, Chris. I like it. I spent a little time thinking about it and part of an answer came to mind. Honestly, though, that's as far as thinking can take me with this. Thinking about it won't get me to the answer that truly, deeply satisfies. It's perhaps even worse than not answering it at all.

Feel better Andy. Sick + DN = very sticky embeddedness for me too. I understand. Take it easy on yourself.

There's a place you have not yet plumbed. You're still assuming, even if subliminally, that there is a special thing that remains hidden from your view. Is it there, really? What is it? What do some folks here see that you don't?