Alex's experiment with the grounding of emotions

I realize that I have not been active on this forum for almost a year. As a matter of fact, I have been very busy writing and exploring other traditions and I am back on Kenneth's forum to journal my experiment with the grounding of emotions within the body.

As the result of an initiation into an Afro-cuban spiritual tradition, I have noticed that anxiety had ceased to manifest as an emotion and was only felt as an energetic disturbance in the body. I had assumed that it was the normal outcome of this powerful ritual. Three months later, I tend to think that something did change for good. Why? How? I can't tell yet. Fact is that it reminded me of my conversation with Kenneth in relation with the grounding of emotions in the body.

I have therefore decided to give it an honest try. I must say that when I first read Kenneth's description of the practice, I did give it a skeptical try for a couple of days, but didn't really see the point. Fact is that it didn't feel good. On the contrary, feeding these emotions with attention only made them more disturbing. Guess I wasn't ready for it. Now that things have changed, I can not only feel emotions as a physical or energetic sensation within the body, but also start to experience their dissolution into a peaceful and rather pleasant energy. I will try to journal my progress on this thread to see where it will lead me. Your practical advice and tips are welcome. To stay focused on the practice, I will however ignore comments of a purely philosophical nature (I have my own opinion as to how it fits within conservative traditional Theravada Buddhism).

More synchronicity

How are you, Alex?

Practice oriented comment:

In my experience with this sort of thing one really does feel "worse" before one feels "better." Like Alex I have never done in a systematic way the practice Kenneth offers (grounding emotions in the body) but I have been able to obtain similar results by simply doing more or less what Ken McLeod suggests, which is to feel emotions as fully and completely as possible and often as possible. So in a way it was through taking up other practices (to your comment, Alex) that I was able to first experience and then re-think this issue. My objective is not about emotions per se, but about the nature of mind itself (and that's more or less what Kenneth said to me in regard to his own practice very recently).

I, too, have some theories about why this kind of thing does what it apparently does, but that's something to discuss on another thread.

Respectfully

It seems that all practices are gestures toward relief from suffering. And suffering is the feeling of separation, loneliness; little me against Big Universe. Any practice can provide temporary relief. By its very nature, to practice is to step outside our habitual self-contraction, at least for awhile. We do this by putting our attention on something other than the thought of "me." So whether we follow the breath, or focus on some perception, or grab onto the nimitta and ride into jhana, or do any other practice, we are temporarily relieving the suffering of self-contaction through distraction. Sooner or later, we always come back, however. We come back to the body, the mind and the emotions. We come back to pain, thought, and all sorts of desires and aversions. These are utterly unbearable if our only concern is self-concern. Love is the opposite of self-concern. Love for another person, for our initimate friends, family, humanity, animals, plants, thr starry sky. Love for the Absolute Divine. In love complete, the difference between self and other becomes fuzzy, indistinct, and finally unimportant, if it even continues to exist at all. Only those who love are fit for living here, as my late great guru Adi Da said.

@Chris & Gozen - Nice to see you both here! Yes it came through other practices, including (devotional) contemplative prayer. Love is the opposite of self-concern, this is true. The corollary is that one needs to rise above self-concern to gain the ability to love, unconditionally.

Deep insight into the emptiness of self cuts the root of desire and aversion, but the force of habits keeps the wheel turning, even if when the engine has stopped...

My recent experience with the grounding of emotions tends to confirm Adyashanti's teachings according to which awakening initially takes place at the level of the mind and must be followed by a process of embodiment (through the chakras), to bring it down to the level of heart and gut. The reason seems to be that when identification to thoughts has stopped, emotions become the strongest factor of identification to (re)create the sense of a separate self.

Grounding emotions has been easy these days, probably because I am on holidays in China. The practice starts to feel like a form of inner alchemy by which emotions are transmuted into raw energy that can be recycled to charge the energy body. When the charge become to high, my body seems to evacuate the nervous tension with a spasm, that feels like a sudden strong exhale, pretty much like the valve of a pressure cooker.

***

What a treat to see Alex, Chris, and Gozen reunited here on the same thread. And more synchronicity: I've been lately invoking my favorite buddha, Amitabha, to help cultivate positive mind states on the road to buddhahood. Funny, because I've never been the devotional type and imaginary beings have never been my cup of tea. Still, it was the invocation of Amitabha's name that brought my first taste of the Pure Land jhanas many years ago, and the very mention of the name never fails to bring about a smile of gratitude, an enhanced sense of being in the body, and a kind of vast silence as though whispering in a cathedral. Taken further, this leads to direct mode and the PCE/fruition attainment. I've been doing this several times a day for a couple of days now, but the basis of my practice continues to be the recognition, again and again, of the essential emptiness and perfection of all things.

Thank you, Kenneth. And more synchronicity: my mother-in-law has been reciting Amitabha's mantra for about an hour this morning.

These imaginary beings are imaginary... until they start to manifest!

Getting back to the main subject of this thread, I am trying to ground emotions in the body throughout the day, trying to form a habit when I am still in a calm stress free environment, with a special focus on how temporary identification with emotions crystalizes a sense of self. Your wise tips are always welcome.

I found a thread where Kenneth wrote:

"for example, if you were to ask "who am I?" while simultaneously grounding in the body, you would be killing a lot of birds with one stone. The self-enquiry naturally brings the proprioceptive sense (7th stage) into sharp focus, and you are already working at the sixth stage (mind states) by grounding emotions in the body. If you also notice whether a narrative (8th stage) is occurring, you have quite a comprehensive package".

This is precisely what I discovered last night. Must be on the right track.

He then wrote "a related question would be whether any given yogi is ready to do this practice. The answer is that if this makes sense to you, you are ready".

In my case it didn't make much sense a year ago and does start to make a lot of sense now.

Just like the olden days

"
I found a thread where Kenneth wrote:

"for example, if you were to ask "who am I?" while simultaneously grounding in the body, you would be killing a lot of birds with one stone. The self-enquiry naturally brings the proprioceptive sense (7th stage) into sharp focus, and you are already working at the sixth stage (mind states) by grounding emotions in the body. If you also notice whether a narrative (8th stage) is occurring, you have quite a comprehensive package".

This is precisely what I discovered last night. Must be on the right track.

He then wrote "a related question would be whether any given yogi is ready to do this practice. The answer is that if this makes sense to you, you are ready".

In my case it didn't make much sense a year ago and does start to make a lot of sense now.
"

Just to chime in, since this is personally interesting to me as it was my own practice I highly recommend this practice or some variant on it. If you can ground and dispel the "I" proprioceptive sense at the same time, you kill two birds with one stone. And non-narrativity does sort of fall out of that naturally. It all fits together well.

The practice that dispels the "I" proprioceptive sense was, for me, the practice that eventually leads to a PCE, and I think it was a PCE that finally solidified my attainment of stages 6 and 7 (changing my perception in a permanent-seeming but subtle way).

When I was following Kenneth's advice that you quoted, I simplified it to "go as deep into direct mode as possible and stay there as long as possible." I found that, far enough into it, grounding and no-proprioceptive-"I" are simply the way perception works. The effort to sustain it takes care of narrativity.

If you go all the way, you get a PCE, but it's probably not required.

"
If you can ground and dispel the "I" proprioceptive sense at the same time, you kill two birds with one stone. And non-narrativity does sort of fall out of that naturally. It all fits together well.
"


Thank you, EndInSight!

Yes this is what I am after. What leads me to try this is also the fact that I partially inherited the tradition of Nisargadatta Maharaj focused around the close examination of the sense of self (what he called the feeling "I AM"). If I say partially it is because the finish line involves the permanent vanishing of the "I", which is very rare and must match Kenneth's 7th stage of enlightenment.

In this perspective, your help and support will be priceless.

The big thing for stages 6 / 7 is to figure out how to get the states related to them that you attain to carry on outside of formal practice. How's that going for you?

Are these stages or states? A "state" implies that mind can be in and out of them with some regularity, maybe on a voluntary or controlled basis. A "stage" implies, at least to me, that once one gets there it becomes the default experience.

My understanding from my own experience working through it is that there are stages that become default experience when attained, but then there are states which correspond to those stages, and which are what cause the attainment of those stages if you hang out in them enough and somehow recognize that they are truer kinds of perception than what came before.

Okay, thanks.

"The big thing for stages 6 / 7 is to figure out how to get the states related to them that you attain to carry on outside of formal practice. How's that going for you?
"


@EndinSight - This is what is happening, yes. I keep grounding emotions within the body throughout the day and things are starting to change in the sense that they are felt as a physical sensations, while it is starting to become difficult to localize a sense of self.

At this stage it seems that reflexive-consciousness, namely the sense that "I" exist as a separate entity, arises when the beingness of 'what is' gets associated with a subjective affective feeling in connection with the body.

In other words, the sense "I AM", " I exist as a separate being" seems to arise when thoughts and emotions get associated to physical sensation taking place within the body coagulating the flavor of being that pervades the totality of consciousness into a false crystalized sense of existence as a separate entity.

"
At this stage it seems that reflexive-consciousness, namely the sense that "I" exist as a separate entity, arises when the beingness of 'what is' gets associated with a subjective affective feeling in connection with the body.

In other words, the sense "I AM", " I exist as a separate being" seems to arise when thoughts and emotions get associated to physical sensation taking place within the body coagulating the flavor of being that pervades the totality of consciousness into a false crystalized sense of existence as a separate entity.
"

Hi Alex, I only joined K D F last September so have not read any of your previous posts.

I am very impressed with your knowledge, great use of language, and how you get your points across.

Its obvious you have deep realizations, and i look forward to reading your future posts.

Welcome back!

@Stephen - thank you. I am trying to be as clear as possible and admit that this is not an easy task especially since English is not my mother tongue. If I have been absent for a while it is because I am working on a book focused on the Western path to enlightenment and had to field-test most of the martial, to find the simplest and most effective ways to transmit this stuff.

Alright! After two days of intensive practice I am starting to run into PCEs or at least states of apperception as defined by Richard "apperception is an awareness of consciousness. It is not '˜I' being aware of '˜me' being conscious; it is the mind's awareness of itself. Apperception '“ a way of seeing that is arrived at by reflective and fascinating contemplative thought '“ is when '˜I' cease thinking and thinking takes place of its own accord '¦ and '˜me' disappears along with all the feelings. Such a mind, being free of the thinker and the feeler '“ '˜I' as ego and '˜me' as soul '“ is capable of immense clarity and purity ... as a sensate body only, one is automatically benevolent and benign".

The most interesting thing is that it start to arise while walking in the street and not only during formal sitting practice. It also seems that other can feel it, since my wife told me "why do you look so great today!". Normally, --as Brad Warner put it-- "you know that you are God, but nobody seems to notice it!"

My exploration of Christian mysticism and contemplative prayer leads me to think that 'apperception' as described on the page:

actualfreedom.com.au/library/topics/pce.htm

...is precisely what Saint Theresa of Avila called 'ecstasy' or the 'prayer of union' where the three higher powers or faculties of the soul, namely memory (thinking), imagination (daydreaming, visualizing) and will (sense of self, sense of being a doer and an observer located somewhere behind the eyes in the head space) are temporarily suspended. This seems to be confirmed by Bernadette Roberts who mentions (if I remember well) that her experience of 'No-Self' started with experiences of 'ecstasy' (without loss of consciousness) that became more and more frequent.

In the sequel to 'The Cloud of Unknowing' called 'The Book of Privy Counseling' the 14th century anonymous mystic describes a (silent) prayer focused on the apprehension of God as the Ground of Being, focused on exploring our own subjective sense of being, stripping it of everything personal and affective until completely vanishes to give way to the revelation of God as the Ground of Being. Meister Eckhart seems to have followed a similar approach.

I am also currently exploring this particular tradition and will see how it relates to the PCE, apperception and mystical states mentioned my Christian mystics (but vastly ignored by the vast majority of modern Christians).

In his practice journal Mumuwu wrote something that I find very profound and useful: "noticing the effortlessness involved in seeing, hearing, etc., tuning into that effortlessness and resting in it seems very conducive to direct mode / pce-like experience".

The sense of self fades away when we realize that we do not need to do anything to be conscious and aware. The idea that one must be mindful, more aware, etc. tends to reinforce the false identification to consciousness, leading to the false belief "I am awareness". Realizing that the 5 senses (the first 5 vijnanas) do not need an agent, a doer, or a knower to function, leads to freedom from birth and death.

The fear of death is the fear of extinction; the fear of losing our awareness and/or our sense of existence forever. When we realize that 'awareness' and the 'sense of existence' come and go like any other phenomenon, we also realize that what we are is unconditioned and uncreated; unborn, beyond existence and non-existence and therefore not subject to birth, old age, illness and death.

Tonight's experiment: facing a wall, I try to feel the existence of the wall. Does the wall exist? How do I know that it exist? What I get is a clear yet abstract sense of existence, ie, the a priori intuitive knowledge "this wall exists". I then do the same thing putting my attention on my body - "do I exist?", "how do I know that I exist". And there also I feel "this body exists", "I exist". I then compare the sense of existence of the wall and of my body to see why one is felt like an external object, while the other feels like something related to "me". investigating it, it appears that the body can be felt exactly like the wall. My attention is able to sense and feel the texture of the wall exactly like I sense and feel the texture of my body. The only difference is that within this body, in the chest around the heart space I also feel a warm emotional or affective feeling of what I would call self-love. Examining it, it feels just like this warm spark of affection felt in our heart when thinking about a loved one. My conclusion is that this feeling of self-love experienced in the chest is precisely what differentiates the sensation of my body from the sensation of the wall in front of me. Concentrating on this affective feeling of self-love in the heart space of my physical body, it starts to evaporate and "my body" become "a body". It feels exactly like the wall, the table and everything else. And then... there is no more *me*, *I* or *my*. All that it left is the totality of 'what is'; the ordinary world seen without the filter of self-referancial thoughts, feelings and emotions. And ordinary reality is suddenly transfigured into something extraordinary and magical, brighter, possessing a life of it own. Some may call this a PCE, I will simple call it *Objective Consciousness* (after Gurdjieff), namely consciousness without a trace of subjectivity.

"The sense of self fades away when we realize that we do not need to do anything to be conscious and aware. The idea that one must be mindful, more aware, etc. tends to reinforce the false identification to consciousness, leading to the false belief "I am awareness". Realizing that the 5 senses (the first 5 vijnanas) do not need an agent, a doer, or a knower to function, leads to freedom from birth and death."

This is something, then, that I'm actually very familiar with. I call it "letting go." Profoundly letting go. Really letting go. No need for a controller, a doer, an agent of any kind. Things just run themselves, automatically. The realization of the truth of that situation we live in all the time is something that comes along with 4 path, but the implementation of it, the living if it, has to be practiced and become habit. That *does* lead to very free, distinct, clear and serene experience.

The more this gets examined the more familiar it starts to sound, Alex. I think the experience of these practices (grounding, PCE's, etc.) is perfectly fine and dovetails very nicely with other practices. BUT -- if we start from the philosophy of Actualism, as you've said on another topic, and use that as the platform from which to communicate these things, we end up dealing with emotional responses, not reality.

Hope this makes sense.