Stream Entry or Bust

"I'm wondering if maybe it's counterproductive to meditate this intensively without guidance. Could I actually lose ground?"

The answer to this, like most things, is "it depends." I never meditated more than an hour at a time, and even then that was pretty rare. I still do two 30 minute sits almost every day and that's the schedule I've been keeping for many years. I believe, just based on my own experience, that consistency is the key, not Olympian meditation periods lasting hours and hours. Consistent and effective periods of meditation and consistently paying attention to what's happening in your experience stream between periods, off the cushion, are all I ever did. If your lengthy sessions of sitting are upsetting you and causing you to question their efficacy then maybe it's time to back off a little bit. See, I'm convinced that a lot of what happens to practitioners does't just happen while on the cushion but while off (sometimes even while asleep), like the mist that gets you thoroughly soaked before you realize you're getting wet.

Just a few thoughts from someone who never went on retreat or meditated like it was an athletic competition

Yeah I guess I got a little overwrought there. I was able to return to a more manageable state, but then cut it short yesterday. A retreat is a little like an athletic competition in that you have to take your prep and diet and everything into account. I just kind of dove in. Still, I think it was useful. Actualy it was in part because my daily practice is not very strong I wanted to do longer sits. Endurance is easier for me than stability. It is amazing that so many people are talking about real attainments with day-to-day practice. That's seems a new trend. I like it.

And thank you both for commenting, by the way. I think I got a little psychological insight from my little marathon that should help with mindfulness practice.

Today's sit was one hour. Noted symptoms of an incipient cold. Noted thought narratives. Noted fuzzy, buzzing, tingling, swimmy head. Noted frustration, calm, anticipation. Became tranquil and watched thoughts flit in and out.

I'm going to have to agree with cmarti on this one. Some of the most drastic improvements or changes that I have experienced seem to come while not formally practicing and just noticing things in my day to day experience. When I practice too much I tend to tense up a lot and that can be counterproductive. I guess it all depends on the person, some people need a lot of hours while others don't.

"Definitely noticed a wider variety of experiences during a longer sit. The equanimity state seems harder to maintain than to reach initially. Or is it just "layers of mind" being exposed?"

I think your practice has answered this question, right? I think longer sits do expose more layers of mind, but sometimes too long sits can expose too much to digest. So it requires a bit of a balance.

For what it's worth, for any nana/layer of mind -- you can "reach" it but that's a little different than "penetrating" it. For example, I experience the same thing as you do, an equanimity-like state that comes pretty early in the sit. Makes me feel like I'm already a great meditator and tempts me to end early once that starts to fade. But it's only by hitting these stages again and again, that the deep experience of them is seen through.

One thing you can do to help get the most of you sits is to make resolutions. For example, "I resolve to sit for (modest amount of time, 45 mins or 1 hour) and experience the cutting edge of my practice." The time can be as short as 30 minutes, but you will know when you have the right length of time because it will feel right.

You can do several of these sits a day and still get things done in the rest of your life.

Retreats are good and retreat-like practice does get the momentum going, but sometimes too much momentum doesn't help. It's a balance.

Ironically, it's good to practice just a little harder than you think you can. That seems to be the sweet spot.

"Makes me feel like I'm already a great meditator and tempts me to end early once that starts to fade. But it's only by hitting these stages again and again, that the deep experience of them is seen through. "

Ah, that's so helpful, Betawave. That temptation to end early and get up is so familiar. It highlights the value of having a timer and sticking to the one-hour practice period or whatever it is--if you don't stick to the schedule, there's a good chance you'll simply hop up once that fade starts to happen.
Bhikkhu Analayo actually did a guided meditation at Spirit Rock where, seems to me, he was trying to get people to understand this phenomenon. He portrayed the dissolution of the ease/joy as an opportunity to better understand impermanence/the 3Cs.

"
Ironically, it's good to practice just a little harder than you think you can. That seems to be the sweet spot."

Word.

A trick I learned from Ken McLeod -- when anything arises, BE that thing. Experience it as fully as you can. So when you have the urge to get up out of your sit because you get bored, impatient, angry, whatever, immediately dive into that experience, big time. It amazes me how quickly the thing dissipates when I do that.

"Ironically, it's good to practice just a little harder than you think you can.

"

This is almost verbatim the advice I had in mind over the holiday week end. I read it in the "Reformed Slacker's Guide to Stream Entry." I know Dr. Ingram as well is a fan of the traditional retreat-going approach. I'm not a historian of Buddhism at all, but it may be a somewhat new development that people are routinely getting enlightened on airplanes and such. I think even householders were expected to retreat. I could be wrong.

Basically what I learned from this is that I am pretty addicted to distraction. I wonder if this is not a key insight in EQ. After the Dark Night, learning to live with unpleasantness, the pleasant sensations are an equally solid obstacle. It's not the obvious pleasures, so much (sex, drugs, and rock and roll - although those are awesome, too) but the insidious conveniences that rule my life and make mindfulness, right now, a lot more difficult than Vipassana. I mean, NPR, podcasts, internet, netflix. I am rarely without these. So I'm learning to program mindfulness into my day. Driving time is practice time, eating is practice, working... that's still hard. But I'm encouraged that there has been at least this development in my practice, thanks in part to everyone's feedback.

Wow, some good insights!

But don't worry about it too much and wind up going off on a strong renunciation trip.. Life is life. If you can cut some stuff out to give you a little more space, that's good. Do that and note the "want to get distracted mind" during your sits. Kenneth calls it "slippery mind". For me, it's like I'm sitting in a car during a long distance trip and just daydreaming and pondering nothing much for hours. Yet it is very enjoyable. That's a really good way to waste time during a sit! But if you (and I) just note whenever distration thoughts and those desire for entertainment thoughts pop up --- well, that's a good sit. Remember: nothing big needs to change, just your awareness of it.

Not much chance of a renunciation trip here. But I've been trying to keep a higher standard of mindfulness. If the radio is on, am I even listening? And generally interrupting the narrative more regularly throughout the day and seeing what the self is up to.

I sat one hour tonight. Started with 10 minutes of ping pong noting with my girlfriend. Then slipped into a placid state marked by strong, persistent tingling sensations in the crown and forehead. I watched for the thoughts as they were arising, and noticed - or maybe just intellectualized - that they're arising to perpetuate my sense of self. I've been looking for self in sensations, or spacial sense, or feelings; and regarding thoughts as a distraction from that study. But it seems (right now) that the thoughts are the crux of it, and their purpose is perpetuation of the self. Well, I've heard the same idea in a million dharma talks, so. I felt through that. I noticed the self directing the meditation, do this, focus on that, and started watching that. These tweaks seemed to deepen the basic mindstate. As I write this, I think this stuff might be summed up as letting go. I'll do some more now.

Sat one hour. Felt very energized, in contrast to how I'd been before sitting to meditate. I experienced light strobing - something I've missed in the past, and was unclear on when reading about it in other journals. When I opened my eyes, it was actually darker than with my eyes closed. Also vibrations, shoulder pain, strong forehead tingling, euphoria, thoughts, memories, images... quite a change from the usual.

I dreamed that I got stream entry, but it looks like it was just a fairly vivid A+P experience. Bright light, body raptures, bliss. I even awoke in this state thinking "something is different," (scripting!) but it was a transitory sort of difference. Seems like a consummation of my sitting meditation last night.

1-Hour sit, back to familiar territory. Mind state was neutral, lots of tingling in the head. Tried dropping intention as much as possible.

Sat twice yesterday, totaling about 2 hours. Similar to other eq-like sits, although I think excessive caffeine intake caused some racing thoughts and probably kept me in low rather than high eq.

I attempted kasina practice for the first time today, about 35 minutes. I was using an improvised crayon drawing of a circle (orange). Mostly what I experienced was eye pain. Otherwise not much more concentration than while doing vipassana. I'll continue to work with this, and also to stabilize concentration before doing vipassana.

I sat another hour last night. Attained a much more stable sense of peace and stillness, thanks, I believe, to mumuwu's post on concentration and kasina practice. Not that my concentration could fundamentally have improved already, but it seems like having the intention to cultivate a state, emphasising stability over investigation made a difference. Another difference: the usual tingling at the crown was stronger and developed into a pronounced pulling upward.

2-3 hours per day for the last few days. Continue to have access to a more stable , panoramic, quiet state. Very comfortable for the most part. Observing the whole field of awareness. Long periods without distracting thoughts. I had a few moments that seem like near misses, where the vibrations at the crown became very intense, pulling upward strongly. The whole field of awareness seemed to vibrate almost nauseatingly. It felt... unsustainable. Like I was either going to pop a fruition or hemorrhage. Neither happened. Noted fear. Today, I'm noticing the deeper concentration states alternating with more thought-oriented, personal observations. Sense of the silliness of the self, its futility. Its unsatisfactoriness. Noticing hang-ups about death, aging, accomplishment, and self-importance. Objectifying it all, but also seeing its intractability. Deep-rootedness. Objectifying self-loathing. Objectifying desire for enlightenment.

Daily awareness seems plateaued at about 30%, but I'm noticing more bleed-through of equanimity. Mostly, not wanting to do anything but meditate, and being a little lazy.

Also, I've been working more with resolutions. They seem to be accelerating progress a little, along with brief periods of concetration practice.

20 minute sit yesterday. Felt like I zoomed right in to strong concentration, deep pleasant blissful vibrations. Didn't want to stop, but had things to do.

One hour tonight. Much more difficult getting concentrated. More distracted thoughts, more gross sensations. Itching, numbness, tickles. Felt a rising energy at one point. Awareness of visual field, some faint flickering light. Sensed confusion and preoccupation along the lines of, "what is happening now?"

Through most of the day today I was pretty angry and unhappy, with some obsessive thoughts that had been absent for a while. I had a few beers last night, and wonder if that didn't knock me back a bit.

Light schedule tomorrow, so I will hopefully be able to give in to my meditative monomania. Work Shmerk.

I sat an hour this morning, and 90 minutes after lunch. Very poor concentration. I tried counting breaths and could barely get past 3 before having to start over. Noted tingling in the head, ache in neck, pressure of sitting, strong cardiac pulse in head, subtle anxiety... mostly torpor. Lots of distracting thoughts.

I'm feeling pretty confused by this. I feel like I'm missing something. Could missing a couple hours sleep cause a setback? It seems that I had pretty steady access to high equanimity for a while and suddenly I can hardly meditate. Hmmm... I persevere.

Long periods of equanimity with few distracting thoughts. A couple recent tweaks: instead of noticing no-self, noticing "no separation from self." I'm not sure if this is correct practice but seems to help deepen concentration and broaden the field of awareness. Also, I'm really making an effort to let go of effort. It's challenging, but also seems to be rewarding.

My practice has taken a bit of an intellect-oriented turn lately. Taking a step back and questioning my assumptions about SE, why I want it, what I think it is. This is in part because I notice the desire for it is persistent, and also seems a little silly. Also, just getting into EQ - or whatever it is - day after day (for the most part) for months now, seems pretty static. So, when sitting, I've actually avoided getting into a deeper, quieter state, preferring to study the chaotic layers of mind closer to where I live my life. Letting thoughts unwind, while still examining them, sometimes for content, sometimes for correlated sensations. Not sure where this is going of if it's "correct." Maybe I just got tired of following the instructions!

It seems like backing off was helpful in letting go of the desire to make things happen. Today in my meditation I played around a bit with penetrating different objects that seem like self. Awareness itself, the head, the visual field of darkness, the proprioceptive sense of space. I felt a beam of vibration at one point from in front of the third eye to beyond the back of my head. I felt an elongating sensation of the distance from heart to crown. I felt a bump at the crown at one point.

I continue to spend a lot of time in equanimity, probably averaging about a half hour per day in high EQ. I've managed to let go of the desire for path, maybe too much - although I continue sitting regularly. Basically, my motivation for practice right now is similar to my motivation for sleep - I just don't function as well without it.

Still, I investigate the sense of space, contentment, pleasantness that is numbing. Any sense of self lately (while practicing) is pretty vague.

I can't remember seeing journals where anyone spent this long in equanimity, so it's quite possible I'm doing something wrong. I wonder if my "morality" training has not caught up, somehow. I continue finding ways to bring mindfulness into my life, especially mindfulness of negative mindstates; mindfulness while driving; mindfulness while walking and working. It doesn't seem to be deep mindfulness, but I disembed at least.

I continue to work a little on concentration with every sit.

To sum up: ho hum.

What is the self diagnosis of equanimity based on (forgive me if your journal answers the question)?