Meekan's practice

Counted 10*3 very unconcentrated
Then noting:
Chaos in beginning, lots of motion inside head
Then calmed down, light.
Slightly darker.
Then started becoming restless.
Pain in back. Bailed out 8 minutes before 60min-bell.
What is this thing about being kicked back to square one?

"What is this thing about being kicked back to square one? "

Good question, wonder about that sometimes myself. Any thoughts or hunches?

I really have no idea except that I try to take it as a clue of my clinging to "progress".
Hmmm... Hope that's a sign of progress

1hr25 min noting 5 min metta
Estimation of mindfulness 10-15% of the time.
During that time mainly aversion, wanting to get up, sadness, tension, thoughts of meaningless sits, etc...

Long sit! Are you being masochistic or are you getting some benefit?

(Out of curiousity, what do you think needs to happen for you to get next Path?)

"Long sit! Are you being masochistic or are you getting some benefit?

(Out of curiousity, what do you think needs to happen for you to get next Path?)"

Hah!
I figured that if my concentration and awareness are low I'll beat them with quantity.
Work harder ( maybe smarter?).

Regarding your second q, I don't have a clue. It feels like I am getting lots of insights, but perhaps they are not path-related
And I may have had a near miss a couple of weeks ago with a total blackout, but what's missing..?
I guess it'll come when ot comes... (I haven't seen too many recipes on speeding up the process around

I'm probably projecting but it sounded like it had burnout potential.

The reason I asked the second question is related to the work smarter vs. harder aspect. II had/have a hunch you might be looking for a continuous state of experience (mindfulness approaching 100%) that will get you there. That wouldn't hurt, but it seems like path moments just need one moment of 100% mindfulness and usually happen when you are very relaxed and in the transition from daydream/trance back to mindfulness. Switching in and out of trance is no big deal and isn't a good way to judge a sit.

(You can't control "your mind" switching in and out of trance, it just happens! Judging it is unrelated to the dynamic itself. One way to think about it, if you are trying to make yourself mindful, then you EDIT: are just putting yourself in a "trying to make yourself mindful trance". Mindfulness just happens and the more it happens the more likely it is to happen again. And at some point you see the suffering of "trying to do" and it gets dropped like a hot coal.)

Hope this helps a little, I'm hoping it might help take pressure off, but maybe it helps by providing an example of how not to post on KFD! I wish I knew a recipe for speeding things up!

meekan, just curious, do you find that long sittings do seem to help your practice?

Thanks, Betawave!
I upped my sitting and originally did more of sandwiching, i.e. Walking-sitting-walking-sitting, but after hearing that Shinzen recommends two hour sits I thought I'd just try some longer ones.
Funny thing about no-control. The sit where I had this total sensory black-out was as far as I remember it (dunno how verbatim this kind of retrospect viewing is tho quite different. I felt like I was just sitting and having kind of fun and not really feeling like meditating... Perhaps relaxation was the thing?

" meekan, just curious, do you find that long sittings do seem to help your practice?"

Difficult one to answer. A couple of weeks ago still being in this very chilled equanimous state, I was walking around and being pretty clear and stable off the cushion. Sitting was quite effortless much of the time.
Lately it's been back to good ole days of strenous sits, and things off the cushion seem to affect me more, i.e. I am swept away more easily by negative stuff.
So the state on and off are correlated (duh! . In what direction, I dunno, and whether the length of the sits have really had any impact on the practice..?
How do I evaluate that?

"Funny thing about no-control. The sit where I had this total sensory black-out was as far as I remember it (dunno how verbatim this kind of retrospect viewing is tho quite different. I felt like I was just sitting and having kind of fun and not really feeling like meditating... Perhaps relaxation was the thing?
"

It could be. Practicing instructions are to get us in the ballpark, generally present and mindful. But after that it's a (fun) dance. The mind is in the ballpark, watching the sensations of breathing for example, and the mind stream leaves the ballpark, it's beyond our control (not due to our failing), and when we notice it, >just by noticing it<, we're back in the ballpark. In that instant, the thought stream is our meditation object and we are instantly present, noticing it. If we're mindfull of being unmindfull, we're are by definition mindful again. In equanimity, we can see how gentle and subtle this is. The instant the mind notices it is embedded, it is disembedded. Almost no effort needed at all, no matter how lost we get. No need to judge how lost we get because all it takes is noticing it and it's over. Back and forth, away and return. We don't have to force it to return, it just does so when we notice it's gone. Right? Really simple. Judging how lost we get doesn't do anything because the past is the past. Making peace with no-control and always being ready to note again is part of what allows equanimity to hang around.

(Sometimes trying harder/longer just creates another obscuring layer on top of the natural mind dynamic. I got lost in that for a very long time decades ago. It feels like progress to work hard or regiment the mind, but that isn't really The Mind, it was just a new habit that I created.)

BTW, sorry for spamming your practice thread... I think I'm going to just sit back and watch you ride this wave to shore. Surf's up!

Dang -- I just realize you might be regularly checking in with Ron.

If anything I say doesn't match Ron's guidance, please throw it out the freaking window.

"BTW, sorry for spamming your practice thread... I think I'm going to just sit back and watch you ride this wave to shore. Surf's up!"

Don't be sorry.
I believe the reason for me journaling here is to hopefully get some feedback and suggestions.
Sometimes I am sorry for not being able to give more advice to others myself, but my experience and knowledge will hopefully expand with time

I am so happy that you take he time and jump in (and give feedback to us with less advanced practices too, although I guess the more advanced are more interesting and novel).

So, whenever you feel like saying something, I am thankful!

(yada yada - meaning basically "Thanks, it's appreciated"

Metta!

To be honest, there is no regularly yet.
I hope to talk to him again, but we have only spoken once yet
edit

Been ill for a while with a strange virus. Muscle pains and throat irritation.
Missed some sits, but sitting for shorter periods.
Today:
50 minute sit.
Pretty calm and focused. Noting pain, pressure.
Calmness
After a while though pain got hetter of me. Moved to a chair.
A little dreamy for the last bit. Missing noting and being swept away. Noting "wandering" a lot when finding way back.

How many life times will it take?
Awww, shucks... "craving" "craving"

40 min noting 5 min metta
Settling down.
Very calm, at moments a little dreamy. Sittingbjust happening, me noting.
Metta joyful.

45 min noting 2 min metta
Calm, dreamy, middle some fear, restlessness.
Moving through me. Determined.
Joyous metta.

45 min silent noting
Quite calm. But ran away with thoughts much of the time. Some sadness rushing through me at times.
15 min walking
Concentrated
45 min loud noting
Expansion and calm until somewhere past the mid-point. Ran away with anxiety about an upcoming thing.
Restlessness, avoidance noticed and noted .
2 min metta. A little rushed but pleasant.

45 minutes noting
Calm and concentrated. Noting pain and mind's attitude towards pain.
But after a while the pain got the better of me and I found myself changing into a chair. Where is that eq of yore?
Quite focused remainder with bodily sensations now in the foreground.
Short metta.

Still sitting regularly.
30-60 min/day. Last week or so. Preoccupied with thoughts about posture and back pain, technique of noting mixed with long periods of really fast chaotic whirring images, today resembling fires straight out of some marvel comics.
I move between noting/noticing and aversion/frustration in the sits.
Some deep seated cravi ng for wanting sits to look like something else, back to be pain free, etc?
Don't really know what this all means...

1hr5min
35min noting loud,
Scattered first, then expansion. Pain arose, noting. Focused, curious.
25min silent noticing
Noted greed for the calm state I was in. Noted lots of passing aways of sensations.
Had a period of running away with thoughts. Noted aversion to this. Also had some intense wanting to control the timer.
5 minutes metta
Lots of joyous waves in body.

1hr10min
35mn loud noting
Noting pains. Noting calm, noting greed for the calm, light, expansion.
30 min silent noticing
Itches, pains, arising, dissolving, thoughts, plans, craving for control over time
At one time span of in some planking thoughts (trying to control the future of an event with lots of aversion connected to it)
Connections between thoughts sensations and greed/aversion noticed.
5 minutes metta

Sounds like you're on a roll, strong, steady practice!