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Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...

  • JYET
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13 years 2 months ago #90315 by JYET
Replied by JYET on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Also got curious maybe it's this one? Inclusive awareness, just what's been interesting me recently.

  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90316 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Sorry for the delayed reply, yes JYET has the right link to Hokai's guided meditation. It's from Buddhist Geeks 2012.

"What does this mind look like" is something different. It's a zen Koan thing, I have a print out from Kyong Ho...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyong_Ho

...called "The great matter of life and death". I've always liked it. Funny, my google-fu skills can't find a digital version, but I'm sure it exists. Part of it says "ask yourself repeatedly, "What does this mind look like?"

I think Kenneth's "Ships in the Harbor" is a way into presence through sound, "What does this mind look like?" does the same thing but with vision. In both cases, it's looking for something that isn't there which puts us directly into the experience. You can't hear the ships, you can't see the mind, but listening and looking takes you where you need to go.

It's so funny. I've spend my entire life thinking that there was a mind to see, but that's as funny are hearing the ships in the harbor! (That's the kind hurts so deep in the bones it's funny.)

...So, this practice thread dropped off the main page --- for a reason. I dropped formal practice while being busy with work and then immersing myself in a short solo camping trip. No regrets. I don't think I lost much and it seems like I needed a little space from formal practice. I now see it is because I was tight against a wall of "this won't work, this isn't good practice, there is no point, it doesn't matter." I knew it, but just didn't have the space to see it --- and laugh at it.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90317 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
So, back to sitting. Some reminders for me:

Note "this practice won't work" thought.
Note "this isn't the practice that will lead anywhere" thought.
Note "[feeling] inadequate".
What am I trying to protect?
What am I trying to comfort?
What am I trying to strengthen?
How do "I" practice?
The body breaths itself.
Listen to the ships in the harbor.
What does this mind look like?
Rest right here.
Fine tune rest and interest.

  • giragirasol
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90318 by giragirasol
Replied by giragirasol on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
I had to chuckle about the Ships in the Harbor the other day. It was very foggy, and I was walking on the shore. All of a sudden there was this immense noise that filled the air in all directions: a ship in the harbor blowing its fog horn. I thought "You don't even have to listen for them! When they sound their horns you cannot avoid hearing them!"
  • betawave
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13 years 2 months ago #90319 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
You found Kenneth's ship! Now we can finally stop this practice. :)
  • Aquanin
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90320 by Aquanin
Replied by Aquanin on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
"You found Kenneth's ship! Now we can finally stop this practice. :)"

LOL
  • giragirasol
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90321 by giragirasol
Replied by giragirasol on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Next up: listening for the mouse in the attic. ;)
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90322 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Short sit last night, 30 minutes. Went on a ride, lots of bliss states and "purifying states" (emotional tension, releases, feeling soft warm and weepy), lots of aversion to sitting and checking out those sensations as sensations. Feels like getting used to giving up at a pre-verbal level.

I don't feel like I'm facing a mountain of hindrances, but I feel like I'm going to need discipline to get my seat on the seat. Time will tell, fast or slow, untangling the knot...
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90323 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Another short 30 minutes sit, a milder version of above with a lot of sleepiness.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90324 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Forgot to check the clock yesterday, but felt like a 30 minute sit. Seemed less thick that previous sits, more space opening up and more distinct cognitive aversion to sitting at times. Could clearly note "aversion" and look at the negative sensations in the body. Seemed to go through about three cycles of active practicing, practice doing itself, becoming bored/averse, seeing that, and beginning again.

Today sat for an hour, much more open and immediate. Locked on to breath at the nostils for a while. Was pulled into a somewhat formless concentrated state. Was blissed out. Resolved to awaken as quickly as possible for the benefit of all beings. Was very equanimous. Hit a round of fatigue, yawning, sleepyness. Remembered past states of equanimity that led to fruitions, felt the desire/craving for repeating that experience and a desire for "making progress." (Don't really know what progress looks like at this point. Awakening seems like an all or nothing thing at this point, any particular experience doesn't seem to matter.) After 45 minutes or so I felt cleaned out, but continued to sit to see what happened. Mostly drifty mind combined with clock checking, but hung in there just to make it an hour.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90325 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Sad, sad, my practice thread was on the second page due to lack of sitting/posting. Note to self, post even on days when I fail to sit (face the failure) --- and snap out of it already! Consistency.

Following Beth's advice I've been noting my problems throughout the day. Most of it is pretty simple regret about the past and fear about the future. Noticing that career and -- believe it or not -- hobbies are most sticky. Sometimes just because of simple past/future regret/fear, but there is something there that I want to get deeper into. I'm going to sit imagining the worst possible case scenarios that I can think of, see what that does to my body, and see if there is any insights there.

Sat sunday for an hour. Followed Beth's advice and said "I don't know what is supposed to happen" whenever things got sticky/doubtful. It worked really well, keeping it fresh moment by moment. Similar to other sits but much deeper. Cutting edge was looking at sensation-thoughts of "interest" and "satisfaction" and seeing those objectively as assumed sense of self. Got a little shook up imaging life without those, but I can't deny that they arise and pass on their own.
  • meekan
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90326 by meekan
Replied by meekan on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Man, I can relate to some of that stuff...
Sometimes I've been doing something akin to that "worst possible scenario", but perhaps not long enough.

Rooting for ye!
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90327 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Nothing much: short 15 minute sit with lots of head nods, then slept for 10 hours.
  • Aquanin
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90328 by Aquanin
Replied by Aquanin on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
"Nothing much: short 15 minute sit with lots of head nods, then slept for 10 hours."

10 hours!! What's that like? Please share ;). Sorry, I have young kids. A little jealousy coming up here.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90329 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Ha! Yeah, it was a nice consolation prize.

Actually, I forgot to mention that I had an interesting dream. I was traveling and was at a japanese temple that also served super-high quality sushi (like in the movie Jiro Dreams of Sushi). I was completely overwhelmed with how to be a proper sushi eater that I worried so much that I blindly ate too much too early, fell asleep, then awoke to realize that I had missed most of the dinner. Seemed very much like a metaphor for original ignorance (the anti-satori of samsara) and my recent meditation practice! I got the feeling that I just needed to stop trying so hard, experience whatever discomfort comes up, stop trying to plan or triangulate my way around future fears, and just eat the meal as it is served.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90330 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Seems like I'm on a similar trajectory as a few weeks ago. This time it was 40 mins. Lots of head nods. And then (turn away Aquanin) another 10 hours of sleep. Not sure if it is weight lifting related or I'm fighting some illness.

The tummo thread has caught my interest, but my body is prone to mania-type excesses. That said, I'm interested in adding in a very gentle version of the Tummo exercises in the morning. Might be a way to add more energy, balance out the leg exercises I'm doing, and be more time on the cushion -- plus it might support my caffine detox I've been working on. I usually wake up early about 50% of the time, so I'll try adding it in then. A gentle addition.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90331 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
A few sits fitted into the last day, Morning, Afternoon, and Evening. First was very witness-y, second was EQ and dull, third was blissy and dull/vague. Facing aversion very directly, watching EQ quickly turn into dullness, seeing how bliss and discomfort coexist and distracts. Many moment that seems very confusing, but a moment later they are gone. Seems like straight ahead is the only course. More extended/extreme version of the sits happened while dreaming. For 3/4 of last night it seemed like I dreamed all of my top 10 angsts, dark dark night style, while semi-lucid and semi-practicing. Then spent the last 1/4 confused and blissed out. Very similar off cushion this AM, world weary but still feeling somehow free. Seems like a lot of stuff is coming up.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90332 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Ugh. 50 difficult minutes. Settled quickly but felt lots of "skin crawling" sensations, then a light but constant sense of aversion to just being -- like three characteristics but not sharp sensations, stayed open eyed and let it happen, lasted a while then became calmer and sleepy, closed eyes and was quickly concentrated but felt myself getting close to nodding off, struggled to stay at least a little alert even with eyes open, had to stand up, felt vaguely afraid of the dark shadows in my view like they were going to swallow me, felt like everywhere I looked was a "thought" which felt oppressive, continued to sit out the clock with low grade buzzy/vibrating. Dang, it was the hard kind of work, just allowing it. Never nasty sensations/experiences just mild and persistent difficultness and time moving slow.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90333 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Yesterday I had a mini outdoor adventure in the bright morning and cold air of the AM which helped get me out of the work week and blow the cobwebs out of dark nightish mind. Sat for an hour and didn't try to manipulate it at all, bordering on not caring. If mind drifted, fine, if there was concentration, fine, if there was thinking fine, but a gentle preference for returning to the sensations of breathing. And that's what it was, a lot of wandering and a lot of returning. Trying to get used to caring less and still experence the sit.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 2 months ago #90334 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
45 min sit today. Same gentle approach of whatever happens is okay. Eyes mostly open, very plain state. Then changed to skin-crawly stage. Then acceptance of it, even it it was like this the rest of my life. Then awareness of thinking/thought. Seems like the feeling of separation and problem is due to the pretense of context/thinking about experience. Hung with that hunch for a while getting calmer, then a big spasm in my body. Felt like I touched something deep. Rest of sit felt like a shaking off/assimilation of the experience. Then a short period of feeling sleepy and having mild skin crawling sensations. Wished for all beings to benefit from my practice. When I said it, it reminded me of thought again. May all beings awaken, free of suffering, happy seems a lot like may all thoughts be experienced (not ignored), known as empty, and known as luminous.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #90335 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Short 30minute sit. Fairly solid/concentrated feeling and calm, then sleepy toward the end.
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #90336 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
No practice yesterday.
  • Aquanin
  • Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #90337 by Aquanin
Replied by Aquanin on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
"No practice yesterday."

You sure about that? :)
  • betawave
  • Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #90338 by betawave
Replied by betawave on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Ha, don't give me a lazy way out!

Well... I did listen to dharma talks while bench pressing. It was a very strange juxtaposition. And I'm re-reading notes from John Peacock's Buddhism before the Thereavada talks. BUT THAT DOESN'T COUNT!
  • Aquanin
  • Topic Author
13 years 1 month ago #90339 by Aquanin
Replied by Aquanin on topic RE: Fast or Slow, Untangling the Knot...
Maybe listening to talks doesn't count, but I bet you are practicing more than you think you are during the day. Look for it.
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