Nikolai's Practice Notes

Following Kenneth's lead, I'm going to start one of these threads to talk about what things are happening to me.
I guess I will just give a quick introduction.

For the past 9 years I have been immersed in the Goenka/U Ba Khin method of vipassana of bare awareness of the physical sensations of the body. Less than two years ago I came across Daniel Ingram's book and then the Dharma Overground and this gave my practice the much needed boost it so lacked. I realized I had been very close to 1st path many times but never knew to invesitagte further once in high equnimity. I was a dark night yogi since my first course 9 years ago. I went and did 10 day goenka retreat over new year's recently and on day 5 landed 1st path without a doubt. There is an account of this on the Dharma Overground-Dharma Diagnosis. Something also happened on the 9th day of the same course which left the mind completely changed again. More open and spacious and the "I" seemed less solid. I don't know what stage I am now as I also had a significant fruition a few days ago as I travelled over from Australia, my homeland to Chile where I now live. I think I am 2nd pth now as the state of being is quite different to the 1st state I experienced from day 5 of the retreat.

Things I have access to now are the 8 jhanas. All I need to do is will the mind into them as now I've done it countless times that I recognise each one quite easily. I can jump up and down them at lightening fast speed. I really don't know how this came about as I really had limited exposure to jhana pracitce. I dabbled in kasina a little bit with limited success maybe getting to 1st and 2nd without knowing it.

I can also get into a weird absorbtion state which I explained a bit on the nirodha samapatti vs phala samapatti thread.
I can also will the mind to attempt to stay in the anicca and anatta fruitions but it doesn't actually do that but wiggles in and out of it. I can't stay in the dukkha one. I give an explanation on the same thread already mentioned.

My concentration was always strong throughout the past 9 years but now it is 1000 times stronger. I am amazed everytime I close my eyes and expereicne a clean clear mind. I seem to be very on top of any negative sensations arising and can pinpoint where the cycle seems to be at anytime. Although I am more aware of the physical sensations of cycle as it makes its way up the body to the crown. It is extremely clear. I think this is due to the 9 years of the Goenka method.

I am suffering considerbaly less than before getting path and these other major fruitions. My whole life now seems like one big adventure to enjoy. I feel so blessed and stunned by how some things have come so easy and occur by just will of the mind. I really have no clue as to why it's like this. So I am gonna start this thread to talk about what happens to me as it does.

Thanks Kenneth for the suggestion.

When I sit to meditate I either go up and down the jhanas slowly or fast and sometimes stay with the cycle sensations up the body corresponding to the chakras. I can call at will a fruition by observing any of the characteristics in a sensation or mental image. I sometimes also revisit the moment I got 1st path when the "I" was seen as just a mass of sensations dancing about the head and body. I usually get a fruition entering through the door of the characteristic that is being considered ie. anicca, anatta and dukkha.
I really like doing the eye flicker Kenneth has talked about to get them when not sitting in meditation. I also realized I can get them by focusing at the area directly behind the 3rd eye which I read someone here doing.

Today I made the assumption I was entering the 5 pure abodes. I will refrain from calling them that but I seem to access something after the 8 jhanas. Due to Kenneth's descriptions of them , I may have just willed the mind to imagine them. I have no idea what they are. They are very pleasant.

And that is where I am today.

Hi, Nikola. I'm enjoying your comments and questions. Can you describe in more detail what you experience after the 8th jhana? For example, the 1st Suddavasa jhana, for me, is a very warm, very happy place. The sensation starts in my forehead and then spreads warmth and a fuzzy-numb, happy feeling throughout the body. I associate this jhana with the color red, dark red. This jhana is very welcoming, very peaceful, very warm. The 2nd Suddavasa jhana is at a higher place inside my head, more toward the crown. It is likewise very, very pleasant but it has what I would call a higher pitch or frequency, is cooler in tone, and I associate it with the color turquoise or light blue.

How do you experience them?

Hi Chris,

My explanations may sound the same as Kenneth talks about in his dharma discussion because as he talked about it I accessed absorbtions that "seemed" to correspond. I don't want to say they were the pure abodes as they my be something else. I may have been just imagining them.


Without knowing anything about the pure abodes beforehand i would go up to the 8th jhana and ask myself if there was anything after the 8th. I then would will the mind to go into something after 8th. It immediately jumped into fruition. That is when i also realized I could will the mind to envelope itself in that slight build up of sensations/energy at the crown before the fruition occurred. I also played around with trying to remain in the cessation moment only discovering I could just wiggle in and out of it rapidly. I then was able to hold it indefinitely in that wiggling in and out experience. Except for the dukkha one. It last only a few moments because my head and neck shoot back and up and i stop breathing. Due to the breathing ceasing I snap myself out of it.


Then when I listened to Kenneth's dharma discourse on the 20 strata of the mind a few days ago I attempted to see if i could get to those abodes.

I'll see now if I can access these absorbtions and describe them. Maybe someone can tell me what they really are.

The 4th one. Again like Kenneth explained, the focus is on the crown chakra. with the energy connecting each of the chakras. The 3rd one seems to have the energy going downward from the third eye or rather the focus is downward from the third eye. The eyes seem like they are looking down and the mental focus is downwards including the legs. But at the 4th the energy seems to move upward and out. The focus is directly forward and primarily on the sensations of energy flow from the chest up to the crown. Again it feels very energizing.

The 5th one, I have to admit I didn't know what Kenneth 's description of it was. I missed that part on the recording for some reason. But when I willed the mind to whatever was after that 4th one it jumped to a state which does not completely resemble the 6th jhana but the focus is similar. In that it feels like the focus is on consciousness. The whole body is now buzzing with subtle blissful vibrations.

I have no idea what I am doing. i am just seemingly copying what Kenneth has described by willing the mind into states that appear like the descriptions. I have no clue what they are. I am not making this up. These absorbtions are real whatever they are and better than the 8 jhanas.

The 1st one. Well, because Kenneth said the focus was on the third eye, I shift focus there and automatically the sensations of the body get extremely subtle and blissful. Much more blissful than any of the previous 8 jhanas. I feel the thrid eye chakra swirling around with energy/vibrations. The sensations are felt all over the body but primarily at the chest upwards to the third eye. I'm doing this in the dark so I can't tell you if there are any colours. i dont think there are for me. It is very still and peaceful state. I really hadnt expereinced something like this before. So I automatically considered it a pure abode. Maybe it's not.

The second one. Again, Kenneth wrote about the focus being on the crown, so I shift the focus to the top of the crown and automatically the sensations on the body become more subtly blissful, and move upward in way. Or rather the focus is primarily from the throat upward to the crown. it's has a lighter feel to it. When I shift from the first to the second it's almost like I feel the body moving upward.

The third one. Again, I focus on what Kenneth says it is, the third eye again but also becoming aware of a flow of energy connecting each of the chakras. That is what it feels like. I mentally picture this as well as feel it in and out of the body as as blissful vibrational energy. The body feels like it is getting really energized. There is a pleasant pressure at the third eye.

Hi Nikolai,

Thanks for your sincerity, honesty, and open-mindedness. All of this will become clear with time. It would be irresponsible of me to express an opinion about your practice given what I know so far. For now, see what happens when you sit without any intention to manipulate your experience, but just to go up and down the jhanic arc naturally. See what happens. Advanced practice is about learning not to manipulate after spending a lifetime becoming a master manipulator. We all have to unlearn manipulation in order to reach our potential, counter-intuitive as that may seem. The highest understandings come from surrender. Just passively observe the strata of mind as they go by, then report your findings here. How far up the jhanic arc do you go before you spontaneously start back down? See if you can identify and describe each stratum of mind in succession.

Supongo que hablas tanto español como inglés. Podríamos hablar en español, pero en ese caso la gente no nos entendería. En todo caso, tu inglés es mejor que mi español.

Saludos,

Kenneth

Hola Kenneth,

Si' hablo español. Mi novia es Chilena y ella no habla tanto ingles todavia. Yo no diria que mi ingles es mejor que tu español. Mi ingles es malisimo y soy profesor de ingles como tu!!!!Jejeje!

Yes, I speak Spanish. My fiance is Chilean and she doesn't speak so much english yet. I wouldn't say that my english is better than your spanish. My english is atrocious and I am an English teacher like yoursefl!!!!!! Hehehe!

I will practice as you say and see what happens. Muchas gracias Kenneth!

Hi kenneth,

So I just sat and watched the mind go through the stratas . Within 5 minutes I went through each of the 8 jhanas. I have never actually let things do there thing like this before so it was interesting seeing the mind move through them naturally. it felt so natural. Like the progression from one to the other felt so natural. Well, after the 8th jhana it moved right into the 1st new absorbtion then up on tthrough the 2nd, 3rd, 4th to the 5th one. and stayed there a minute then dropped back down and within 5 minutes I was back down again. Within 30 minutes it felt I had gone up and down at least 3 times. On the third ascent there were these raptures or waves of extremely pleasant sensations that would arise on certain areas of the body, like my back or my chest area up to my neck and top of the head. Very very pleasant. Then when it hit the 5th new absorbtion the view shifted to see almost like a circular pinkish red kasina shape in front of the eyes with a clear white background. The mind was extremely rested. Also on the way up through the new ones and when the mind went back down there were these very brief flashes of the same colour, pinkish purpley red. I feel extremely rested and extremely blissed out at the moment. What next? Should i continue to practise in this way? My body is buzzing with extremely blissful waves of vibrations.

Hola Nikolai,

Yes, continue to practice in this way, letting the jhanic arc rise and fall. Put the witnessing consciousness in the foreground and the changing jhanas in the background. If you aren't sure what I mean by the witnessing consciousness or Witness, pay special attention to the 6th jhana, the jhana of infinite consciousness. The Witness is the predominant characteristic of this jhana. Then, find the Witness in the other jhanas. The Witness always looks the same. It's the eye of the storm as the changing phenomena of mind and body circle around it. Become absorbed in this witnessing consciousness. This allows you to dis-identify from subtle layers of mind in which you might otherwise be embedded. Eventually, you will dis-embed even from the Witness. Watch the jhanic arc cycle up and down from the point of view of the Witness. Start to make your own mental map of the strata, noticing how each one manifests for you. How do you recognize each one as it goes by? Can you see that they all arise in reverse order as you descend the arc? Become a cartographer of the topography of your own mind.

Kenneth

Fantastic Kenneth!

I feel excited and enthusiaastic about sitting like this. I do understand the Witness and yes I remember reading that you said it corresponded to how the 6th jhana feels. I will do this next and get back to you with what happens.

Excellent! Ta!

Today in the morning the witness took centre stage in the sit. It was an extremely interesting experience.
Once in the witness state, the jhanas proceeded to arise and transition to the next up through the strata until it reached this 5th new absorbtion and then staying there about a minute it dropped back down the same jhanas in reverse order.
The changes that were witnessed and clued me in to which strata I was in, were mostly the vibrational shifts and how the mental focus shifts as well as how my eyes also seem to shift , move, and focus differently in each one.

I will attempt to describe the transitions.

For example, moving up the formless jhana, from 4th where the vibrations are subtle and cool, the shift to 5th has the vibrations feel like they go upward. The focus moves quickly to the space above the head, up and out. The eyes almost feel like the want to look skyward. Then from 5th to 6th the vibrations shift from feeling like they are "out there above the head" to directly were the Witness is, right smack bang between the eyes. The eyes themselves feel like they are almost going to go cross eyed and the mental focus is now the space in the head between the eyes, were consciousness feels like it is. Then to 7th, the vibrations seem to heighten but are still extremely subtle, and the mental focus kind of drops away. There is no focus. There is a complete panoramic view and the eyes seem to take in everything, but at the same time nothing, no focus. From 7th to 8th, there feels like there is a slight downward movement of the eyes, and it feel like someone has gone and turned the light off suddenly. Sensations are still felt but not taken in....this is real hard to describe. It's unique in that I have no idea how to describe it. All the time though there is a mental focus on nothing and everything if that makes sense...I don't know.

So anyway there were about 3 rounds within 30 minutes. I kept sitting for longer and something that hasn't happened before occurred.
As the Witness observed each of the strata pass to the next, the Witness kind of lost ground so to speak and so did the intention to keep witnessing the strata. I think I fell in to 3rd gear which for me was the 1st experience of it. A really clear and just peace and peace. No Nick, no witness, just bare awareness and it lasted sometime, but I think I was jumping back and forth from witness to this state. There was no intention to be interested in the strata anymore and I sat for another 30 minutes in this. I've never felt so present.

Anyway, that's today.

Then from here, the body vibrations open up and become really blissful. It's like someone suddenly turned the light on in the mind, from 8th to this new 1st absorbtion. Then as it shifts through each of the next three, the basic changes are the focus on the body, from the third eye, to the crown then back to the third eye but with an extra awareness of energy flowing all over, and the same to the crown. The vibrations from the 1st are quite blissful with the focus being from the third eye, downward. Then to the 2nd, the focus shifts upward and the eyes seem to look out to the horizon and the vibrations shift from quite blissful to a lighter blissful, a real lighter feeling the upper part of the chest and it almost feels like there is a slight pull upward on the crown.

When it gets to the 5th one, the focus seems to be similar to the 6th jhana but not quite. There is a subtle difference which I am trying to suss out right now. I'm not good at describing but it feels like the 6th jhana feels like the focus is more planted in the location right between the eyes and backward into the space behind it, whereas in this 5th new one, the focus is less about the location and more about the flow of "knowing"....aaaaagh, I find it hard to explain. Anyway, there are extremely light and blissful vibrations felt through out the body. A really beautiful absorbtion.

Kenneth,

When the Witness is in the foreground and all the strata are observed ascending then descending after about 30 minutes or so of this, the Witness drops away and there is just bare awareness with no hint of "I". When this happens there is also no intention to observe the strata so I am not able to be a cartographer in that sense. Is this ok? Should I be able to still keep mapping so to speak the strata once I seem to hit a state where the Witness falls away?

I must admit, it is quite a beautiful state and when in it, there is no interest in anything else. I'm not even sure I could still focus on what strata is being experienced at that moment. Should I just cultivate this Witness free state and not worry about the strata?

Hi Nick,

Interest in mapping the states tends to be "seasonal." Depending on what personal season you are in, you may or may not be interested in mapping or tracking your progress up and down the arc. It's fine to just go with whatever arises in your experience. As long as you let the states come and go on their own, without manipulating them, you can't go wrong.

When there is "no hint of 'I'", to whom are thoughts occurring? Are there thoughts? If not, how do you know what the state is like?

Kenneth

".

When there is "no hint of 'I'", to whom are thoughts occurring? Are there thoughts? If not, how do you know what the state is like?

Kenneth"

Ive been going through an insight cycle at the moment and onyl just seemed to have gotten to equanimity of formations. The dark knight of this one was bloody hard. Porbably the most intense one and clearest one I jhave ever had. I never had a great grasp of exactly where I was on the maps except if it was in the dukkha nanas (within the dukkha nanas I didnt't really know) and equanimity of formations. This time around it got really obvious as I passed through each stage.

Anyway, I haven't felt like doing any Witness and non-manipulating practise on purpose. But this afternoon as I felt mysefl in a definite reobservation stage as it shifted into equanimity of formations stage, I felt once again more willing to dwell in the witness. Plus it seemed easier after all the negtivity that was felt on the body.

When I did this , dwelling in the witness, Things seemed to speed up , or rather things passed through the mind faster, thoughts emotions etc. Until I got to a state of extreme high equanimty where the mind felt like the centre of the universe. Within a few mintutes i got a fruition. The fruition made this state even more peaceful and centred. The witness seemed to blip out for a brief fraction of a second and in those moments something else was experienced which i find it hard to explain. There is obviously no thought, cos when I thought,"Wow, how wonderful this is!" I would snap back into the Witness.

Kenneth, is this 3rd gear?

Is the 3rd gear state something you can't describe with words? Becuase it seems thinking anything in that state snaps you out of it. I know the state was amazing when i think about it afterwards because it has a very nice after glow.

Not sure what I am experiencing.

So an update on my practice.

Well, my practice keeps changing, maybe even cycling. Not sure if there is an order to it. At the moment I have been exporing the jhanas. A slight interest has arisen to go deeper in each of the 8 mental absorbtions.

I previously had admitted to accessing the pure abodes but I have come to the conclusion that it was more wishful thinking and a real case of a number of compound jhanas. Which were interesting all the same. I'm discovering that I can pick and choose bits from jhanas and make new ones. Weird and interesting.

But that isn't what i have done recently. I've been choosing to dwell in each jhana up to the 8th and trying to master them. I realize now I didn't have that mastery previously. Each jhana really can go deep and I am discovering at the moment how far they go. And boy can they go places. Even just the boring old 1st jhana. Rather than formal sitting, I am doing this on a park bench near where I live. Being out of the house gives me more energy and enthusiasm to meditate.

My favourite at the moment is the 8th jhana as it seems to be the one with less suffering. Why do i say this? Well for each of the other jhanas, no matter how deep I go into them, I always have the subtlest of dissatisfied feelings, a slight agitation. A feeling of not being 100 percent satisfied. It is what I observe when I ask myself if the jhana is making me completely happy. And the mind focuses on that feeling of unsatisfactoriness as an answer. This feeling is present in all the jhanas, no matter how blissful they get. And they get pretty blissful. But the 8th seems to , in the moments when their seems to be no perception, make me forget or not see this unsatisfactoriness. But all the same, no matter how long I stay in the jhana, I get bored. Like it is not the answer to what I am looking for.

That is why i have said that the jhanas seem so mundane to me. Does this happen to anyone else?

About an hour ago, I decided to do something different and meditate sitting infront of a large mirror looking at my reflection. I was able to see my entire body in the mirror. I entered each jhana and observed how my reflection shifted and moved around, in focus, out of focus.
Then as I got to the formless jhanas, it got really trippy. The 5th jhana made the focus be on all the space around my reflection and I felt I was floating on air. The 6th one got even tippier with the focus being directly bewteen my eyes. And the feeling felt like I was getting drawn into that point endlessly. My reflection seemed to be, at times, superimposed with another face and at times with what looked like a skull with deep black holes where the eyes were. At one moment I felt like I was dwellling 100 percent as the witness. Then my reflection seemed to dissapear and reappear as the reflection of someone else. Hard to explain. A really interesting experience. I felt like I was disidentifying with the image of myself. It wasn't me I was looking at. Worthy of more investigation.

The 7th one was strange as well. The focus came back on to the entire body...but then the eyes unfocused and ...this one is too hard to explain. The 8th one then got trippier and the skull superimposed over my face got clearer and then my entire reflection would dissapear and reappear, at times I seemed to be seeing myself and at others i wasn't aware of what i was actually doing. Very interesting experience. I came out of it thinking about how attached I was to my image and the way i looked. But also not identifying fully with it. Weird but worthy of more exploration..

And on further reflection, I would actually do this when I was a young teenager as I now surprisingly remember. I would go into the bathroom and stare at my reflection until I started seeing my face shift and morph, disappear and reappear. I think I was unintentionally accessing jhanic states back then as the certainly were trippy states I was getting into.

Anyone else meditated in front of a mirror with eyes open?

"Anyone else meditated in front of a mirror with eyes open?"

I'm not even near the stage yet where I can begin to think about meditating in front of a mirror with eyes open. But something about it kind of frightens me and I wonder why that would be? It almost seems too intimate or even threatening... something to do with self-perception vs "reality" I suppose...

Dark nighting once again. Just when I thought I was getting used to the cycles, Boom! I get a rather hard slap in the face. Any formal meditation seems to go out the window and is replaced by walking in the park, surfing the net, and just going about daily business trying not to react to the negativity spewing out. My fiance knows about the dark night now. Hehe! All I have to do is say those two words and she leaves me alone to let it pass. But this time around it has lasted longer than before. Oof!

With fiance, we are now off to the beautiful south of Chile for 10 days of volcanoes, lakes and pristine green nature. I am taking my copy of the visuddhimagga and have the intention to develop the 8 jhanas as much as I can, maybe develop a psychic power or two. Hehe! The little kid in me wants to be Harry Potter. The intention and curiosity is there so why not!
I've always wanted to see devas.

Anyway, I'll let you know how it goes....

Hasta luego!

"I've always wanted to see devas. "

Your comment made me recalled a statement from MCTB - "if you have learned to see angels, you will probably run into devils soon enough."
So do take note.

By the way, I find your practices notes very fascinating.

"Your comment made me recalled a statement from MCTB - "if you have learned to see angels, you will probably run into devils soon enough."
So do take note.

By the way, I find your practices notes very fascinating."

Thanks Peong. That´s true. Demons with the angels. Good advice.

So with my fiance we have been immersed in the beauty of the south of Chile. Lots of volcanoes and lakes and green nature.
But my whole idea of exploring the jhanas went out the window even as we left Santiago, the capital, to drive down here. I have entered a very very lengthy dark night which seems so relentless and confusing. I am dealing with so much impersonal negative flow of sensations on the body, with the occasional accompanying thought of misery, sadness, depression, desire to renounce it all and run away, agitation, and anger. My god, I had no idea the dark night of 2nd path would be so god damn hard and in my face.

I feel really confused and frustrated as there seem to be no fruitions any more. At least for the last week or so. MAybe one. I can induce one by the eye flickering that Kenneth talks about when I want but I don´t seem to have the desire to. All I can do is watch these miserable sensations without any object spit and splutter and make it really hard to enjoy all the beauty I am surrounded by. Nice timing dark night! I would really appreciate some helpful advice or kind word or a slap in the face to do what I have to do...surrender! Man, it´s hard!

What are/were your experiences of second path dark night? This seems to just keep going and going. Sometimes I get to equanimity of formations and then go back down into the dukkha nanas again without fruition. Sometimes it gets to equanimity and feels like the crown is going to pop, but nothing happens. My chakras seem out of control and spewing out a heap of negativity. Is this the experience of anyone else?
In need of some guidance through the dark night !!!