Mike Monson's Practice Notes: Dos

On Sunday I started to realize that I am I being kind of "pulled" toward concentration jhanas. I start off in the usual way -- noting breath and noticing sensations, objects, etc. -- but early on am compelled to stop most of that and just relaxe into the sort of pleasure/bliss/empty-lite feeling that comes from being concentrated on the breath.
For me, when I TRY to concentrate and enter samatha jhanas nothing really happens except for a sense of frustration.
but now, it just feels like my mind or whatever it is is being presented with jhanas and it seems like a good idea to go with it.
So far I seem to be at the stage where I start to really feel the pleasure grow and try to go with it. A lot of instructions say that at this point one just kind of finds the jhana, latches on to it and enters it. I'm not quite there yet, but maybe close.
I'm trying to just be patient and let it happen. Maybe this stage for me will last a while but I think I am on the right track.
I'd been thinking for a while that there were 8 jhanas, but Owen talks about the 13th? How many are there?

"I'd been thinking for a while that there were 8 jhanas, but Owen talks about the 13th? How many are there? "

In addition to the usual 8 there are the two Pure Land jhanas, and nirodha samapatti. But that still only makes 11. Perhaps Owen is tossing in a few sub-jhanas?

"In addition to the usual 8 there are the two Pure Land jhanas, and nirodha samapatti. But that still only makes 11. Perhaps Owen is tossing in a few sub-jhanas?"

Thanks, this is what Mr. Becker said last night:

"So again, about 15 minutes of kasina, then the last 5 rocking up through the jhanas to 13. They are so much more clear now. NS, as always, is hard to do while sitting upright. "

dude has some skills

There are 5 pureland jhanas (according to kenneth)

Yeah, 8 normal + 5 pureland = 13 (plus nirodha samapatti's in there somewhere too)

Those videos Kenneth did with Nick are way worth checking out, if you're interested in understanding the jhannas. The 20 stratum on mind page is good too.

Hey everybody,
Lately I'm finding that nirodha samapatti is just another kind of fruition, but with a long and dramatic entrance and exit.

So what I've found so far:
13 jhanas broken into, 4 rupa, 4 arupa and 5 pure land. 3 kinds of fruition x path variants for a total of 12, and NS. I don't really get clear distinctions between path fruition flavors without making resolutions beforehand, so I'm willing to allow for scripting effects here. NS seems the same regardless of 3rd of 4th path, but I do notice it being more dramatic as I get my concentration skills up. NS is aways sort of a weird beast, kinda hard to classify cleanly.

Oh, one other jhana technique thing. I've found that one good way to being accessing new jhanas (though this might just be me) is to spend some time generating compassion. It seems as though the letting go of self involved in metta is helpful in gaining access to new states. I think it has something to do with personal safety relating to the identity stripping that riding the arc can invoke. It's like "If I can drop the self enough to be compassionate to this person, then I don't mind it getting disassembled via vipassana so much." Just a gut feeling though. It's something I've been exploring.

Great point. Metta generally leads to jhana for me.

Just sayin'

This is a very interesting exploration of the relation of metta and disembedding.

Back when, I made a revolutionary [to me] discovery-- that giving myself a hard time was a weird sort of attachment to / reinforcement of self.

I was sitting in an idle moment getting wound up about something and winding myself up further with my irritation with myself for being so irritated... and suddenly, I realized that I would NEVER talk to one of my kids that way. My heart just sort of broke open on my own behalf-- and I further understood that only this state of soft-heartedness made lovingkindness to others possible.

It seems like one of those simple, obvious things-- but it marked a real turning point in my ability to just sit with whatever presented itself, and to trust in the process on which I'd embarked.

"This is a very interesting exploration of the relation of metta and disembedding.

Back when, I made a revolutionary [to me] discovery-- that giving myself a hard time was a weird sort of attachment to / reinforcement of self.

I was sitting in an idle moment getting wound up about something and winding myself up further with my irritation with myself for being so irritated... and suddenly, I realized that I would NEVER talk to one of my kids that way. My heart just sort of broke open on my own behalf-- and I further understood that only this state of soft-heartedness made lovingkindness to others possible.

It seems like one of those simple, obvious things-- but it marked a real turning point in my ability to just sit with whatever presented itself, and to trust in the process on which I'd embarked."

thanks roomy
very important and very sweet